Explaining to a modern versionist why KJV is good for english

Modern version guy

I will only use the KJ.

The problem I see with KJ advocates is that they don't realize that they seem to continually defend 17th century English and are not actually defending the Bible. For instance, if you have a problem with updating a word like doeth to does then you are not defending the Bible but 17th century English. This type of change does not alter ANY doctrine, sentence structure, punctuation, the meaning of a sentence, etc.

Similarly to say that outdated words that have no use in our society and are actually dead in that they are either never used in any context today or have actually changed meaning is to, once again, defend 17th century English instead of the Bible and may actually cause people to understand the Bible wrongly. For instance, inner culture the word conversation means people talking to each other but back in the 17th cent. it could either mean someone's way of living or someone's citizenship in another country. 2 These 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." The word "letters" back then meant to restrain but today it essentially means the opposite - to allow.

Philip 3:20 "For our conversation is in heaven;..." No one today would use conversation to express the idea that our citizenship is in heaven. By substitution the 2 words you don't change the meaning.

It is not corrupting the Bible to make appropriate changes that reflect the way people speak in a culture. This is what ALL translators, even the KJ translators, attempt to do. If the Bible is not relevant to the cultural language (not compromise for cultural immorality) of the people who read it then we are a stumbling block to have them read it which is why the vast majority will read the modern versions because they are written in the way they speak.

Me:too many of the words in your post are using words used in the17th century. You are too old and outdated.
Ron be trifflin! Sucka needs a mad paradigm shift! we ain't readin Bibles we got audio Word on TOUT!

MVG:are you willfully obstinate? Are you brain dead and just a zombie not willing to think? I was CLEARLY making the case for words that NO ONE uses today in everyday language but have since used a different word than the 17th century that conveys the same meaning. This is exactly what translators do. They find the most appropriate word in the culture they are translating for that best represents what God is wanting us to understand. KJ advocates on the other hand want the KJ English to be frozen in time as if English is somehow special.



I am going to treat as if you not naïve to any of this.

After all you assume yourself intellectually superior by calling me brain dead. Afterall in the spirit of charitablility your calling me braindead was not immoral railing but an IQ assessment correct?

Of course if your contentions are wrong then the only optional hypothesis would uncharitable assessments.

Sooo.....

"Writing is the ideal medium to conceptualize the invisible God' says Neil Postman because "unlike pictures or oral tradition, the written word is a symbol system of a symbol, twice removed from reality and perfect for describing a God who is also far removed from reality; a non-physical, abstract divinity.'  God is described as an abstract divinity because the intangible nature of His being.  God is an invisible  , all-knowing, self existing, eternal spirit.  He is perfectly holy, is everywhere at once, does what he wills, controls every atom inside the universe, and yet is deeply concerned with His creation, with which he has a long history of involvement, including identifying sin, judgment of sin, and redemption from it.  Blocks and paint are just insufficient to convey these kind of truths.  Only writing suffices."  Arthur W.  Hunt III   The Vanishing Word pg. 36 

Literacy is essential for a mature christian walk.

When we look to a translation accuracy is the highest priority as this ESV translator states.

      "The author's own words matter.  Publishers and editers are not ordinarily allowed to change the words of literary texts.  Readers expect to recieve the actual words of an actual author.  As changes in language mark texts from bygone ages difficult archaic, and even obsolete, readers are educated into the meaning of words.  Should we not treat the words and the text of the Bible with the same respect that we show towards Shakespeare and Milton?  Do not the very words of biblical authors deserve the same protection from alteration that author's normally receive?  Should we not expect reader's to muster the same level of rigor for the Bible that they are supposed to summon in high school and college literature courses? ... My answer is that it cannot.  Translation should not be occasion for license.  The ordinary rules for textual accuracy, integrity, and reliability still prevail. In fact, I would have thought that Bible would be the last book which would take liberties." Leland Rykin, The Word of God in English pg. 30-31.

“An English Bible translation should strive for maximum readability only within the parameters of accurately expressing what the original actually says, including the difficulty inherent in the original text. The crucial question that should govern translation is what the original authors actually wrote, not our speculations over how they would express themselves today or how we would express the content of the Bible. The fact that the New Testament was written in koine Greek should not lead translators to translate the Bible in a uniformly colloquial style. Finally, a good translation does not attempt to make the Bible simpler than it was for the original audience” (Leland Ryken, The Word of God in English, pp. 100, 101).

"In 1786 Catholic scholar Alexander Geddes said of the King James Bible, "If accuracy and strictest attention to the letter of the text be supposed to constitute an excellent version, this is of all versions the most excellent."

Good literature matters

"Prof. William Lyon Phelps, educator, essayist, and longtime professor of English literature, said in reference to the King James Version:

"Priests, atheists, skeptics, devotees, agnostics, and evangelists, are generally agreed that the Authorized Version of the English Bible is the best example of English literature that the world has ever seen." "

The Great President Ronald Reagan argued

What would you say if someone decided Shakespeare's plays, Charles Dicken's novels, or the music of Beethoven could be rewritten & improved?

"I'll be right back. . .

"Writing in the journal "The Alternative", Richard Hanser, author of The Law &; the Prophets and Jesus: What Manner of Man Is This?, has called attention to something that is more than a little mind boggling. It is my understanding that the Bible (both the Old &; New Testaments) has been the best selling book in the entire history of printing.

"Now another attempt has been made to improve it. I say another because there have been several fairly recent efforts to quote "make the Bible more readable &; understandable" unquote. But as Mr. Hanser so eloquently says, "For more than 3 1/2 centuries, its language and its images, have penetrated more deeply into the general culture of the English speaking world, and been more dearly treasured, than anything else ever put on paper." He then quotes the irreverent H. L. Mencken, who spoke of it as purely a literary work and said it was, "probably the most beautiful piece of writing in any language."

"They were, of course, speaking of The Authorized Version, the one that came into being when the England of King James was scoured for translators & scholars. It was a time when the English language had reached it's peak of richness &; beauty.

"Now we are to have The Good News Bible which will be in, "the natural English of everyday adult conversation." I'm sure the scholars and clergymen supervised by the American Bible Society were sincerely imbued with the thought that they were taking religion to the people with their Good News Bible, but I can't help feeling we should instead be taking the people to religion and lifting them with the beauty of language that has outlived the centuries.

"Mr. Hanser has quoted from both the St. James Version & the Good News Bible some well known passages for us to compare. A few thousand years ago Job said "How forcible are right words!" [Job 6:25] The new translators have him saying "Honest words are convincing." That's only for openers. There is the passage [Eccl. 1:18], "For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow". Is it really an improvement to say instead, "The wiser you are, the more worries you have; the more you know the more it hurts."

"In the New Testament, in Matthew, we read "The voice of the one crying in the wilderness. Prepare ye the way." [Matthew 3:3] The Good News version translates that, "Someone is shouting in the desert. Get the road ready." It sounds like a straw boss announcing lunch hour is over.

"The hauntingly beautiful 23rd Psalm is the same in both versions, for a few words, "The Lord is my shepherd" but instead of continuing "I shall not want" we are supposed to say "I have everything I need."

"The Christmas story has undergone some modernizing but one can hardly call it improved. The wondrous words "Fear not: for; behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy" has become, "Don't be afraid! I am here with good news for you."

"The sponsors of the Good News version boast that their Bible is as readable as the daily paper – and so it is. But do readers of the daily news find themselves moved to wonder, "at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth"? Mr. Hanser suggests that sadly the "tinkering & general horsing around with the sacred texts will no doubt continue" as pious drudges try to get it right. "It will not dawn on them that it has already been gotten right."

"This is Ronald Reagan. Thanks for listening." --— aired September 6, 1977

You see in order to conserve American literacy.

Our public education system is spiraling down hill.

Even Richard Dawkins in his book "The God Delusion" argues for the inclusion of the KJV in public school curriculum(british school).  For the simple study of drama and plays and how the kjv idioms are interwoven throughout English literature.
When we look at the US public school system we are seeing a massive literacy problem which is crippling our economic future and why globalism is such an easy killer of the nation.  I live downtown in a suburb that was oncde fully middleclass.  However it may still appear that way until you go through the alleys and find hidden shanty towns.  If you go to the city, their are beautiful historically rich homes and they are all internally converted to apartment complexes.
Western society is crumbling because the common man is not a literate man and you have to be makicious to deny our youth literacy.
Our nation was founded as a literate nation and this is because they were 93 percent protestant wih a desire to read the Bible  which was universally assumed to be the King james version(they didn't even call it that back then they just called it the holy bible. That was the motivation for literacy and it is abusive to take that away.