Wednesday, June 7, 2017

The fall of lucifer a romantic tragedy

Once in heaven there was a cherub named luci.
Luci was beautiful.  If there was anything Luci loved it was the light of glory. Luci lived in the beauty of the light. Everything around luci was heaven. Luci lived in pleasure. Luci would breath out music and passion. Everything about Luci was pleasing full of life and energy comepletely serene and uplifting. The highest of high intentions. Always seeking more always seeking grandeur. From the bottom ascending tot the top.  I will sit in the mountain of assembly. I will be like the most high.
There was no sin in luci.
Until the beginning.
Luci had one job.  To stand in front of the throne of the most high proclaiming the glory of the most High The El Elyon.
As the great I Am began and proceeded look down upon the nothing. His Logos Spoke the heaven and earth.  He garnished the ether with the glory of the stars, galaxies and lights in a symphony and luci broke out the band in a concert like never before! It was a time of celebration.
Then as the Spirit hovered across the waters and the earth emerged God garnished the earth and the herbs grew and beasts scrurried the garden was planted and the springs flourished.
Something strange happened.
Evening and morning.
Evening and morning.
Evening and morning.
Evening and morning.
Evening and morning.
Evening and morning
All life, All time.
Everything turned and turned
Luci looked down all things pointed to the garden. And in this garden Luci and saw from below what luci had seen from above.
gazing down upon the red clay breath came in and there manifest the ADAM.
Luci saw glory below. But how?
Was Luci the bearer of the glory of God?  Wasn't Luci the light?
Luci was like the most high!!
Why? Why? Why?
Before you new it Adam had dominion over the beast of the field and the birds of the air. But adonai just wouldn't stop! He lavished Adam with a help mate and they were going to Spread and multiply across the earth. More and more glory than what Luci would have with every new infant.

How could he do this to luci??
Luci started to pulsate and a puss started to swell, we call it pride.
As  Luci kept his eyes from the Elohim he sank and he slithered into the Garden.

Luci liked Eve.  Eve was pretty happy but she had something in common with Luci.  Eve had been given a lot but she was under Adam.
 Luci wanted to drag even down to his level.
Why listen to someone above you? You should be above them.

So He slithered into her path. And he showed her options and paths other than being happy.
Why follow God?  Why not be God?  Eve tried to resist. But in her heart she wanted to be a god. She knew it was death? but what was death?
  When Adam saw what was going on, he came to agree.  Why not more?  Maybe the sanke was smarter than jehovah. Because the snake wanted them to be gods, he must love them right?

No luci hated them and everything they stood for. The lord would learn not to cheat on luci.

But when the Lord came down and caught them Cheating he had something different to say.
Luci had sinned and because luci had sinned she no longer had the Glory she had no more glory. her light was lesser than the moon. she would no longer cover the throne of God.

God was betrayed.  He loved and no one recognized all he had done. there was nothing left to do but to curse.
The stars which commemorated lucifer were then ripped away.
Meanwhile a 3rd of the angels came down following luci to see if they could join forces witht the mankind.
But as the stars were torn the north start erupted and as Jesus notticed.
I saw Satan fall like lighting.
The lightning shot down so far and so fast.
The lightnibg hit the Northpole.
And just like Satan had fallen into the abyss of hades.  The lightning struck with the heart of the earth and broke the earth and boild the great deep.
The fountains of the great deep erupted!!
They shot like no other geyser and broke open the windows of the sky!  Some chunks even hit the moon and put the face of the man on the moons.
The waters separated from the waters were spreads apart and raining upon the earth for 40 days.
The Hills turned into mountains, the seas turned into oceans
Mankind had walloweed in the mud and would now drown in the sea.
But God showed something Lucifer wished he knew. He showed grace to a man named Noah and his family.
He kept them in the ark.  The Ark was baptized and took them to a new though fallen world. Where he would have the hope of a promise given to Him in a rainbow around the earth. Once he was immersed he could find life.  Once the Spirit immerses us we can have eternal life.
Because the Lord knew who he loved from the beginning.

But luci's heart would break because luci never loved.

Friday, June 2, 2017

Basic facts supporting the "Fall of Lucifer" NYC scenario causing the flood of Noah.

The Biblical fall of Lucifer was a spiritual event where Satan was once a glorified angel who fell in pride and was cast out of the Spiritual realm of Heaven.  The "fall of Lucifer" here is a physical event which was a sign pointing to the spiritual event.  The physical event was an intergalactic catastrophe brought by God as a result of the sin of mankind and of course the fall of Lucifer.  The symbolism dictates that God reigns over the universe in His throne in heaven north over our earth.  In the ancient world thousands of years ago before the printing of the Holy Bible God revealed Himself to man in the stars in what is called today as the zodiac.  At the time the constellations were understood as a gospel message giving ancient people signs of God salvation and Christ.  The serpent/Lucifer/draco was directly north covering the throne of God.  But in God's wrath the universe shifted and Polaris separated from draco, then became the north star connecting to Ursa Minor, the little bear, a poor translation of the little sheep(also little dipper) pointing to the little flock the church of Christ and saints who now cover the throne.  Lucifer falling was shown as Satan fell like lightning and Polaris shot a gamma ray burster, destroying the former paradise and as it submerged into the abyss all hell broke loose as the fountains of the great deep erupted and cause the worldwide flood which was only survived by Noah and his family.
Here is my first paper on the topic
This gets very deep however and there is an entire cosmology which I have prepared for scientists and thinkers to go further.
as well as the facebook page.
And for non-readers here is my youtube class where I teach the entirety of the subject.

These are basic Facts and scientific observations which illustrate this conclusion.

1. universal connection
a. rotating galaxies
"Physicists and astronomers have long believed that the universe has mirror symmetry, like a basketball. But recent findings from the University of Michigan suggest that the shape of the Big Bang might be more complicated than previously thought, and that the early universe spun on an axis.
To test for the assumed mirror symmetry, physics professor Michael Longo and a team of five undergraduates catalogued the rotation direction of tens of thousands of spiral galaxies photographed in the Sloan Digital Sky Survey.The mirror image of a counter-clockwise rotating galaxy would have clockwise rotation. More of one type than the other would be evidence for a breakdown of symmetry, or, in physics speak, a parity violation on cosmic scales, Longo said.The researchers found evidence that galaxies tend to rotate in a preferred direction. They uncovered an excess of left-handed, or counter-clockwise rotating, spirals in the part of the sky toward the north pole of the Milky Way. The effect extended beyond 600 million light years away."The excess is small, about 7 percent, but the chance that it could be a cosmic accident is something like one in a million," Longo said. "These results are extremely important because they appear to contradict the almost universally accepted notion that on sufficiently large scales the universe is isotropic, with no special direction."
"On the face of it, the claim of a spin axis would seem anti-Copernican. In other words, the universe has a preferred axis, which means there is indeed a special direction in space."
"What is very curious to me is that the Milky Way’s own spin axis roughly aligns to the universe’s purported spin axis within just a few degrees, as deduced from the two galaxy surveys. That seems very anti-Copernican too. It has also been used to bolster biblical creationist arguments that we are at the “center” of the universe.
Invoking a familiar phrase from Carl Sagan, one cosmologist reminded me that: “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
b. ether detection
"Actually, it is interesting to point out that Sagnac interpreted these results in support of the ether theory against the Special Theory of Relativity (SRT), since he wrote that
“[...] the observed interference effect turns out to be the optical
vortex effect due to the motion of the system with respect to the ether [...]”
[2]. As a matter of fact, during the following years and also more recently (see e.g. the review [5] and the other papers on the subject in the monograph [3]), many
authors interpreted this effect as a conundrum in the SRT when it is applied to rotating reference frames;"


"In 1905 I was of the opinion that it was no longer allowed to speak of the ether in physics, this opinion however was too radical, as we will see later when we discuss the general theory of relativity it does remain allowed as always to introduce a medium filling all space and to assume that the electromagnetic fields (and matter as well) are its states... once again "empty space" appears as endowed with physical properties i.e., no longer as physically empty as seemed to be the case according to special relativity.  One can thus say that the ether is resurrected in the general theory of relativity... since in the new theory, metric facts can no longer be separated from "true" physical facts, the concepts of "space" and ether merge together.
Albert Einstein  "Grundgedanken and methoden der Relativita'tstheorie in ihrer Entwicklung dargestellt,"Morgan manuscript, EA70, as cited in Ludwig Kostro, Einstein and the Ether, Aperion, 2000, p.2
c. electric connection
" A plasma is a hot ionized gas consisting of approximately equal numbers of positively charged ions and negatively charged electrons. The characteristics of plasmas are significantly different from those of ordinary neutral gases so that plasmas are considered a distinct "fourth state of matter." For example, because plasmas are made up of electrically charged particles, they are strongly influenced by electric and magnetic fields (see figure) while neutral gases are not. An example of such influence is the trapping of energetic charged particles along geomagnetic field lines to form the Van Allen radiation belts." "It is estimated that 99% of the matter in the observable universe is in the plasma state...hence the expression "plasma universe." (The phrase "observable universe" is an important qualifier: roughly 90% of the mass of the universe is thought to be contained in "dark matter," the composition and state of which are unknown.)"
2. universal shift
"George F. Dodwell served as the government astronomer for South Austrailia from 1909 to 1952. In the mid-1930's, he became interested in past changes in the tilt of the earth's axis. He collected almost 100 astronomical measurements made over a 4,000-year period. Those measurements show that the tilt of the earth's axis smoothly decayed from 25* 10' to it's present 23*27'. Based on the shape of the decay curve, Dodwell estimated that this axis shift began began in about the year2345B.C. "The gravitational forces of the sun and moon and planets do change the tilt of the earth's axis, but much more slowly than those Dodwell measured. An extraterrestrial body striking the earth would provide an abrupt change in axis orientation, not the smooth changes Dodwell measured. Also only a massive and fast asteroid striking the earth at a favorable angle would tilt the axis this much. However the resulting pressure pulse would pass through the entire atmosphere and quickly kill most air-breathing animals- a recent extinction without evidence." Dr.Walt Brown In the Beginning: Compelling evidence for creation and the Flood pg 116 Barry Setterfield, "An investigation That Led to Unexpected Results by the Late Mr. G. F. Dodwell, B. A., F.R.A.S South Australian Government Astronomer,1909-1952," Bulletin of the Astronomical Society of South Australia, September 1967.

"Our galaxy seems to be more milkshake than Milky Way, opening up a fresh cosmic mystery. A three-dimensional map of the speeds and distances of thousands of stars suggests that they are all shaken up and that the galaxy is undulating up and down, but no one knows why." "It is possible the wave is a lingering effect from a galaxy that smashed into ours in the past. Or it could be actively produced as two satellite galaxies, called the Magellanic Clouds, spiral around the Milky Way and distort its disc." "Previous work examined the vertical distribution of stars in our corner of the galaxy and saw compressed layers that hinted at a wave moving through the disc. Now Mary Williams at the Leibniz Institute for Astrophysics Potsdam in Germany and her colleagues have examined recently released data from the Radial Velocity Experiment (RAVE) survey to create the first 3D map of stellar motion in our galactic neighbourhood. . RAVE covers almost half a million stars spanning 6500 light years in all directions. The team focused on a category of stars called red clump giants, which have about the same brightness and so are easier to compare when calculating their relative speed and distance from us. They then combined the RAVE data on horizontal motion with other readings of how the stars move up and down. What they found is that stars closer to the centre of the galaxy are spreading outwards above and below the plane while stars further from the centre are squashing inwards. The motions of individual stars within these zones are chaotic, with some sloshing around in odd directions. But if we could see the overall pattern from the outside, our section of the galactic disc would resemble a flag rippling in the breeze." Then the various scenarios can be tested by refining our galactic simulations and comparing them with observations of the wave and any possible culprits, says Ralph Sutherland, also at the Australian National University in Canberra. “They’ve really thrown down the gauntlet to the theorists and modellers,” he says." “If there are no external impacts on the disc, what you’d expect is a steady state: things would be going around and around – but there shouldn’t be up-and-down motion. That’s hard to induce,” says Kenneth Freeman at the Australian National University in Canberra."

So in Summary...
The universe is in a state of spin, it has a definite direction which hints to an order hinting to a design.  Space has a substance which Newton and Einstein acknowledge as ether the medium through
which light travels.  99% of the observed universe is plasma and therefore electric.  electric force is 10 tot the 36th power greater than gravity so we know that our universe is interconnected.The universe is also in a state of shifting but this shifting start around the time of the Biblical flood. If the universal shift had a starting point what started it? Obviously the shift unlike the spin is not natural and it would start a catastrophe. intergalactic catastrophe…/2016-03-tiny-ancient-galaxy-catastrophic…
This could be evidence for the fall of lucifer!
Now this article is basically written in big bang language with big bang(BBT) assumptions. I have debunked BBT see…
New years cosmology(NYC) argues that like BBT there was an intergalactic catastrophe when the universe started an annual shift.
The article makes statements confirming this.
""Reticulum II has more stars bright enough for chemical studies than any other ultra-faint dwarf galaxy found so far," Simon explained.
Such ultra-faint galaxies are relics from the era when the universe's first stars were born. They orbit our own Milky Way galaxy and their chemical simplicity can help astronomers understand the history of stellar processes dating back to the ancient universe, including element formation."
Now in reticulum II we see a small galaxy and they are measuring the neutrons and elements. They assume this was because of fusion forming stars in the big bang
But NYC agrees with electric universe(EU) theory that fusion is not the process by which stars operate but electromagnetic energy permeating through the ether. So the neutrons from stars are actually burning on the edge of the stars electric shell.
Never the less the electric burnout points to a catastrophe.
".Surprisingly, the team found that seven of Reticulum II's nine brightest stars contained far more elements produced by rapid neutron captures than have been detected in any other dwarf galaxy.
"These stars have up to a thousand times more neutron capture elements than any other stars observed in similar galaxies," said lead author Alexander Ji of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."
Get ready for it....
"However, finding so many more heavy elements in one dwarf galaxy than had ever been seen before in others proves that the source of Reticulum II's neutron capture elements must have been a rare eventmuch less common than an ordinary supernova. What's more, the sheer amount of these neutron capture elements in Reticulum II far exceeds what most supernovae can even make."
Thats right an inter galactic catastrophe!
"Old stars in the Milky Way show a pattern of neutron capture elements similar to that found in Reticulum II. This indicates that the process of making neutron capture elements in larger galaxies is likely the same as it is in dwarf galaxies, suggesting that even the heavy elements on Earth originated in neutron star mergers."
Thats right an intergalactic catastrophe involving the earth!!!!!
""Because this galaxy is so small, it preserves evidence of ancient rare events incredibly cleanly," said Simon. "We're lucky to have found such an important galaxy so close to us."

We have observed the remains of intergalactic catastrophesThese point to an incredible catastrophic event that happened where there earth isAs earlier noted we observed a starting point to where an intergalactic catastrophe should originate.

4. Polaris shifted
A. ancient astrological record
"Historically, the celestial pole was close to Thuban around 2750 BCE,[23] "
" In 3000 BC, the faint star Thuban in the constellation Draco was the North Star. At magnitude 3.67 (fourth magnitude) it is only one-fifth as bright as Polaris, and today it is invisible in light-polluted urban skies."
"When these constellations were formed the dragon possessed this important point, and the star 'a', in Draco, marked this central point. But by it's gradual recession, that point is recubba, in the lesser sheep fold for it to be what is called 'The Polar Star.'" The Witness of the Stars page 153
Before the flood we have no axial tilt. after the flood the axial tilt which effects our seasons begins.  The shifting of polaris and draco occurs in sequence with the flood. If there were n intergalactic catastrophe as we have evidence of then this would have contributed to the shifting of Polaris.

Image result for pics long tailed sheep/zodiac
B.Symbolic value
Job 26:He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,
and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds;
and the cloud is not rent under them.
He holdeth back the face of his throne,
and spreadeth his cloud upon it."13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens;
his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Revelation 12:
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."
Ezekiel 28:
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;
thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise
they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:
therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God:
and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire."   When we consider the christian zodiac the fall of Lucifer makes sense conferring with these classic passages.  The stars have an intelligent design and the intergalactic catastrophe is in harmony with biblical typology.
5 .Polaris contains white dwarf star aka pulsar
The North Star it is a “pulsing” star, a Cepheid variable, which appears to vary in brightness ever so slightly – only one tenth of a magnitude – over a time frame of just under four days.
If you have a small
telescope and train it on Polaris, you just might notice a tiny companion star (called Polaris B) shining at 9th magnitude with a pale bluish tint. This companion was first sighted by Sir William Herschel in 1780 (just a year later, Herschel would discover the planet Uranus).  Astronomers believe that the two stars – A and B – are separated by about 2,400 astronomical units – one astronomical unit (a.u.) being the average distance of the sun to the Earth.  The orbital period of the two stars may number in the many thousands of years.
In 1929, by studying the spectrum of Polaris, a third companion star (Polaris C) was discovered.  This one, a white dwarf, lies only 18.5 a.u. from Polaris A (about the same distance of the planet Uranus from our sun).  Its extreme closeness to the far more brilliant Polaris A explains why it went unseen for so long.Polaris Physical Facts"A Cepheid variable (/ˈsɛfɪd/ or /ˈsfɪd/) is a type of star that pulsates radially, varying in both diameter and temperature and producing changes in brightness with a well-defined stable period and amplitude."
"A pulsar (from pulse and -ar as in quasar)[1] is a highly magnetized, rotating neutron star or white dwarf, that emits a beam of electromagnetic radiation. This radiation can be observed only when the beam of emission is pointing toward Earth (much the way a lighthouse can be seen only when the light is pointed in the direction of an observer), and is responsible for the pulsed appearance of emission."
"Polaris is a multiple star, comprising the main star (Polaris Aa, a yellow supergiant) in orbit with a smaller companion (Polaris Ab); the pair in orbit with Polaris B (discovered in 1780 by William Herschel). There were once thought to be two more distant components—Polaris C and Polaris D—but these have been shown not to be physically associated with the Polaris system.[10][11]"
Image result for space pics polaris
Polaris has a white dwarf pulsar perfectly capable and in perfect position to strike the earth.  It is one thing to claim that types were made off of the design of constellations. But when we discover that polaris was capable of a matching event even though the ancients had no astronomical knowledge of the dwarf star then they must have observed it.

6.Gamma Ray Burster

Most observed GRBs are believed to consist of a narrow beam of intense radiation released during a supernova or hypernova as a rapidly rotating, high-mass star collapses to form a neutron star, quark star, or black hole. A subclass of GRBs (the "short" bursts) appear to originate from a different process - this may be due to the merger of binary neutron stars. The cause of the precursor burst observed in some of these short events may be due to the development of a resonance between the crust and core of such stars as a result of the massive tidal forces experienced in the seconds leading up to their collision, causing the entire crust of the star to shatter.

The sources of most GRBs are billions of light years away from Earth, implying that the explosions are both extremely energetic (a typical burst releases as much energy in a few seconds as the Sun will in its entire 10-billion-year lifetime) and extremely rare (a few per galaxy per million years). All observed GRBs have originated from outside the Milky Way galaxy, although a related class of phenomena, soft gamma repeater flares, are associated with magnetars within the Milky Way. It has been hypothesized that a gamma-ray burst in the Milky Way, pointing directly towards the Earth, could cause a mass extinction event."  
 A gamma ray burster would easily be capable of causing an event which could destroy the earth.  but how could the ancients have known this, unless it really happened??

6. mythological archetypes

The thunderbolts project has developed a very dynamic study in it's "Discourses on an alien sky."
Now we should distinguish that David Talbot is going to argue for a planetary configuration to stage this event.  While the "fall of Lucifer" will be focusing on a gamma ray burster from Polaris.
Image result for polar sun archetype pics
"visualizing the polar configuration"
 So basically the worldwide arrangement of myths  points to n event in the polar regions.
\In the myth of the Bull of heaven we see an image that could identify with a gamma ray burster hitting the canopy of earth's atmosphere. 
14 The world mountain

The ice canopy would avalanche forming the polar ice caps and thus a mountain of God melting into an ice age.

28 The great comet venus
all show myths which may illustrate testimony of the fall off lucifer. Lucifer was a name understood to refer to the mythological venus.  As we trace the myths of venus we find that it is like an anomaly hitting the north pole.  They assume that this was a comet but it is obvious to me as the "fall of lucifer"
 Thus we have the testimony of the ancients in line with observations of the universe.

Subterranean waters

Scientists scanning the deep interior of Earth have found evidence of a vast water reservoir beneath eastern Asia that is at least the volume of the Arctic Ocean.
The discovery marks the first time such a large body of water has found in the planet's deep mantle. [The World's Biggest Oceans and Seas]
The finding, made by Michael Wysession, a seismologist at Washington University in St. Louis, and his former graduate student Jesse Lawrence, now at the University of California, San Diego, will be detailed in a forthcoming monograph to be published by the American Geophysical Union. 
Looking down deep
The pair analyzed more than 600,000 seismograms — records of waves generated by earthquakes traveling through the Earth—collected from instruments scattered around the planet. [Image Gallery: This Millennium's Destructive Earthquakes]
They noticed a region beneath Asia where seismic waves appeared to dampen, or "attenuate," and also slow down slightly. "Water slows the speed of waves a little," Wysession explained. "Lots of damping and a little slowing match the predictions for water very well."
Previous predictions calculated that if a cold slab of the ocean floor were to sink thousands of miles into the Earth's mantle, the hot temperatures would cause water stored inside the rock to evaporate out.
"That is exactly what we show here," Wysession said. "Water inside the rock goes down with the sinking slab and it's quite cold, but it heats up the deeper it goes, and the rock eventually becomes unstable and loses its water."
The water then rises up into the overlying region, which becomes saturated with water [image]. "It would still look like solid rock to you,” Wysession told LiveScience. "You would have to put it in the lab to find the water in it."
Although they appear solid, the composition of some ocean floor rocks is up to 15 percent water. "The water molecules are actually stuck in the mineral structure of the rock," Wysession explained. "As you heat this up, it eventually dehydrates. It's like taking clay and firing it to get all the water out."
These underground oceans are the perfect catalyst for the flood. A gamma ray burster could heat them until they exploded.  in ancient OT symbolism Hell was symbolized as the sea and specifically the great deep/subterranean waters.  A gamma ray burst drawn in by the earth electromagnetic poles could boil these waters causing a massive explosion and bring out a flood.

8. chalk beds

"This coincided with the break up of the supercontinent Pangea, which broke apart to form the continents of today. As continents move apart, an ocean forms between them, and new ocean-floor is added along the line of spreading (known as the mid-ocean ridge) by magma which rises from below. As the continents moved apart in the Cretaceous, a very high volume of magma rose up to form the new ocean-floor in what is known as a superplume event. The mid-ocean ridges became swollen, and large volumes of magma spilled out elsewhere onto the ocean floor, displacing water onto the continents (causing sea-level to rise). The volcanic activity also produced greenhouse gases which raised temperatures, prevented ice from forming at the poles and hence kept sea levels high. Chalks formed in the sea-ways of the flooded Cretaceous continents."
  So now even with the plate tectonic theory it is obvious that there is a connection between the chalk beds and the oceanic ridge.  Of course the tectonic theory is a bit incredible with a slow uniformitarian progression regarding.  To be blunt, it is easier to shove megatons of stone with an explosion than with a wheel barrel.  How does volcanic magma stack the chalk above sea level?
"If limestone formed organically in shallow seas (the prevailing view), why would the seafloor slowly subside almost 6 miles to allow these accumulations? Subsidence rates would have to be just right during the millions of years needed for organisms to grow and accumulate to such depths. Besides, the seafloor cannot subside unless the rock below it gets out of the way.  That rock would have nowhere to go."
The ocean testifies to an explosive event  which would be caused by the GRB hitting the subterranean waters.

9.  shockwaves)
"In 2013, NASA discovered a third transient belt that exists in between these two belts. Researchers concluded this third layer must have been created by a powerful interplanetary shockwave, which itself was created during a coronal mass ejection (CME) from our sun. "

The fountains of the great deep exploding would also escape earth's atmosphere.  The new Van Allen belt could easily be an effect from such an event..

More evidence points to us of God's judgment.
Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Monday, May 8, 2017

Pierced for our trangessions (debating a jew over messianic prophecies involving piercing)

I was on facebook,  I was debating other topics but this one came up when a Jewsih woman started debating me on the translation of "Lucifer".  This woman converted to Christianity for 40yrs before going apostate back to Judaism. I decided that this prophesy of Jesus being pierced in prophecy was worthy of publication.  here are excerpts on the topic.  (psalm 22 and zechariah 12 are key focused)
Jewish lady: Matt SIngleton You might start with a correct translation. If you did, you'd know that verse 16 does not say "pierced".
Correctly translated:
(Psa 22:16) (22:17) For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
This Psalm is most definitely David.
As for your "complete" scripture.
Please do not attach your bible to mine and call it complete.
However, if you really want to go there, I was a born-again, spirit filled Christian for 40 years. I call those years as a "believer" my desert wanderings. I studied with some pretty important ministers of the time. You see, I was one of the original Jesus Freaks. Would you believe I even lived in a Missionary training school where I studied to street evangelize and I was good at it! Yep, I led hundreds of "lost" souls to Jesus.
But I'm Jewish and sooner or later, G-d awakens the Jewish soul, calls to them to return and opens their eyes to the truth.

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· Reply · May 6 at 1:35am
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton They were not literal lions. What does "like a lion they are at my hands and feet mean? you think they were licking him? LOL.
No, Lions with big teeth and big claws, "pierce" and they did not remove the lion metaphor entirely from the passage."13 They gaped upon me with their mouths,as a ravening and a roaring lion." They made it more understandable to an english reader with the translation "pierced".

"This Psalm is most definitely David. "
Ad hoc
Ye that fear the Lord, praise him;
all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him;
and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel."
who is the "Seed" of Israel?
gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
Obviously, I am happy hat you told people about Jesus for 40 years.
But you have disproved the claim that you were a spirit-filled believer, you were merely partnering with the Holy Spirit. heb. 6:4-6
If you believed then you believe. because to believe is to know and you don't stop knowing the truth.
matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You think you will find solace in an incomplete Bible?
You have "scriptures" but they are waiting for the Word completed.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; "
This is a prophet like unto Moses. the other prophets were secondary to His revelation of the Law, there was new revelation that is not mosaic waitng.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established
in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations,
and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more."
Now here he teaches peace. but the OT hebrews were not pacifist! 
It is new teaching which you don't have. YOU DON'T HAVE A COMPLETE BIBLE."

jewish lady: Matt SIngleton does context mean anything to you at all?  
You Christians, you see a word translated into "Pierced" in English and right away, you think it has to mean "Jesus" because he was executed on a stake. Yet many people endured the same execution. In spite of this, you ignore all the legitimate Messianic prophecies that he never fulfilled and say "oh, but here's the word "pierced", he's messiah, he's messiah, it says pierced!" What about "Seed of David"? He's not of the biological seed of David though his father. What about building the Third Temple"? The Second Temple was still standing when he was killed! What about bringing peace? He said he didn't come to bring peace!

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· Reply · May 6 at 5:42pm
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton so the son is not pierced?? lol lets see how you deal with zechariah 12:10. ( i am at work, so i cant send the link.)

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· Reply · May 6 at 7:57pm
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton btw, ps22 also includes bulls of bashon. david referenced in tons of scripture. where is he put in an attacking zoo? the dogs were talking about the romans because they were named after romulus the wolf god and are gentile unclean dogs. people are still called gods. the lions are judeans "lion of judah" are attacking just like judah betrayed joseph. the bulls of bashon is dealing either syria northern Israel or a combo since northern israel was apostate. david is writing poetically. it no doubt applies to his personal situation in a emotional way. but it applies to christ in a way fulfilled too literally.

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· Reply · May 6 at 8:04pm
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton no, jesus is biologically the seed of God the father. You didn't know jesus was the Son of God?  He is biologically jewish from his mom. His stepdad is biologically Jewish and both are bio descendants of David. He inherited royalty by adoption, to overcome the curse of Coniah. Yet through the curse of coniah his virgin birth and deity are validated. As he is a biological and inheriting son of David and yet the only begotten Son of God the father thus making him the one perfect mediator between man and God. And Jesus affirm he was not just a son of David

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· Reply · May 6 at 8:12pm · Edited

Jewish lady:Matt SIngleton Re: "so the son is not pierced??" - obviously this psalm is not about Jesus.
You should know that the original Hebrew in this Psalm does not say "Pierced", it says "lion" and if you read the whole psalm in context, it should be obvious this is not talking about Jesus.

Zechariah 12 is talking about a time when the Nations are gathered against Israel. In verse 9 HaShem declares He will seek to destroy the nations. He will pour out a spirit of supplication that will motivate the nations to look toward G-d.

verse 10

In verse 10 we see that they shall look upon "me" and mourn over "him"
Who is "me"
who is "him"?
This is obviously 2 different people

John 19:37
changed it to "him"

Can you explain why John changed this?
Zech 12:10 in Hebrew:
וְשָׁפַכְתִּי עַל בֵּית דָּוִיד וְעַל | יוֹשֵׁב יְרוּשָׁלַםִ רוּחַ חֵן וְתַחֲנוּנִים וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ וְסָפְדוּ עָלָיו כְּמִסְפֵּד עַל הַיָּחִיד וְהָמֵר עָלָיו כְּהָמֵר עַל הַבְּכוֹר:
The correct translation:
"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to Me because of those who have been thrust through and they shall mourn over him as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son."
Note, G-d calls Israel His firstborn son:
(Exo 4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh: Thus saith the LORD: Israel is My son, My first-born.

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· Reply · May 6 at 9:05pm
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. "
Yes. that's right they have no problem translating "pierced"
The 1985 JPS trans lation reads 17: Dogs surround me a pack of evil ones closes in on me, like lions [they maul] my hands and feet."
in the study notes of the "Jewish Study Bible"(17-19) it says "The scorners are like dogs(and lions according to NJPS) hunting prey (cf. v.14) They gloat at his death and are eager to take his possessions"

SO you see the Jewish Hebrew Scholars have no problem understanding that the Lions and dogs and bulls are metaphorical and not literal. When the Lion mauls your hands and feet it is a lion but a person. After all people can cast lots for your clothes and not lions or dogs!! ( I know, I know! the painting of the dogs with cards can fool you!)
So if the lions are metaphorical what is it that they do that can relate the lion to the attacker?? Piercing!!! They pierce with weapons, lions pierce with teeth and claws.
Now lets pivot to Zechariah 12:10
The JPS is going to habitually run away from using the translation "pierced". But the Jewish Study Bible has some interesting notes on this verse.
"..The Hebrew s ambiguous, because it may refer to a person or a group whom they have pierced although the identity of the pierced one/ones is unclear, ...." "For an understanding of the verse as pointing to the Messiah from the house of Joseph, see b. Sukkah 52a."
Nottice that they have no problem using the word pierced.
But in general Jewish translators Are scared of using the word pierced in any way specifically, for instance
prov. 12: 18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword:but the tongue of the wise is health."
We see in the JPS "There is blunt talk like sword thrust but the speech of the wise is healing" not only is there no reason to not describe the stabbing of a sword as piercing, but the English is more poor than the Authorized version.
For more than a century Jews were content with the authorized version of scripture as the english Bible and used it for the english audience.
But as the nature of their doctrine they have a bias against Messianic prophecies pointing to Christ. So they use these translations in hopes of escaping that.
You see the consistent erasing of "pierced" is conspired because if the Messiah was pierced in Zechariah 12, then psalm 22 could also easily be applied tot he Son of David the Messiah After all curses and blessing spanning generations is a common theme in the Bible. So then psalm 22 being applied to the Messiah is easily literally applied to Jesus when they pierced His hands and feet and cast lots for His garments and the Jews are thus given fair warning of their betrayal and need for repentance.

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies,…

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· Reply · Remove Preview · 17 hrs
Matt SIngleton
Matt SIngleton "This is obviously 2 different people" oh, you mean like the Father and the Son!?!?!?
Why would Jerusalem wail over Israel's Death, Jerusalem is part of Israel, Israel can not be dead with Jerusalem around!
But yes the OT speaks to the trinity.
And especially the father and the Son.
psalm 110:1
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
btw, king david is sovereign over Israel so who is his Adonai talking to Messiah? Adonai the Messiah, Jesus
Back to Zech, their is no plural once we hear "only Son" because by applying it to Israel you could only argue Jacob/Israel as the singular of Israel. which makes no sense in a future predictive prophecy.
on to john.
John is writing in Greek so he is giving us a copy of Hebrew writing but a translation of it. In general I have concluded that the majority of OT scriptures dealt with by the Apostles are not expositions. The reason for this is that are not speaking by it's authority but by the authority of Christ.
They are gathering implications as opposed to searching for the meaning in the texts.
What that means is that they are bringing out a point of agreement with The OT.
When I say "God is eternal" and you say that "God has been around forever and will stay forever more" you are not copying my words exactly but you have found the implied meaning of my words.
The apostles are inspired of God so they don't need other scriptures because they are already authoritative. They are showing the fulfillment of the scriptures as completing the revelation at various points.
let's look...
john 19: 34 but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."
first, look at exodus..Ex. 12:43 And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: 44 but every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. 45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. 46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it."
So John is using this verse to prove that Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice for sins, because his bones were not broken."
So John then refers to Zechariah 12:10 which applies because Jerusalem did indeed look upon him. And John is in fact right that Jerusalem looked upon Him the Messiah.
They had no clue he was prepared to be their sacrifice. Rome had no idea they were fulfilling Jehovah's Requirements. It is not like the Christians made them react that way!

Monday, April 3, 2017

A new look at an Old Word.:The Textual Issues

Earliest text best?
              Not necessarily
 "All agree that one cannot simply take the older manuscripts and trust them, for they may conceivably be very poor copies, while later manuscripts may be good copies of excellent parents that are now lost.  For example, a tenth century miniscule may conceivably be a good copy of an excellent fourth century uncial, and therefore prove quite superior to a fifth century uncial."
The king James Version Bible debate pg. 18 D.A.Carson

Damage to the originals and early copies
 "First the text of the Bible was transmitted in the context of history.  The rise and fall of the Roman Empire, for example, is an important aspect of the transmission of the text of the Bible to our day.  So, too, is the rise of Islam and the protracted conflict between Muslim and Christian forces around the ancient city of Constantinople.  These things had a great influence upon Christians and, necessarily, upon the manuscript in their possession.  This might seem rather elementary and not worthy of noting, but scholars have put forth entire theories about the text of the Bible that seemed to be utterly oblivious of the simple facts of history and how they impacted the entire process."
James White The king James Only Controversy pg. 41-42This is a statement I totally agree with.  We need to look specifically at the history of the text transmission and the transmitters to understand how we get to the originals.  It is unfortunate that White shows very little history in his book.  He spends some time criticizing the history of Erasmus, the majority text and the kjvo camp.  Yet besides these, he never spends much time on real historic issues of the text.  He doesn't go over the history of Alexandria, or the specific Alexandrine school.  He mentioned Romans and Muslims but stopped there.  he never explains why the alexandrine text never persevered in the transmission of the text and he never discusses the ancient translations and translators in detail.  However when we are confronted with the delimma of the Majority TR not having the majority of the manuscripts: How do we account for the majority text? 

Lucian Recension?
  To account for the massive amount of Byzantine manuscripts it is generally theorized that the Byzantine Christians created the byzantine text.  They believe it was done under the heretic Lucian.
However do they have proof that this was done so historically?
Basis: A. Late date
"Before the middle of the third century, at the very earliest, we have no historical signs of the existence of readings , conflate or other, that are marked as distinctly Syrian by the want of attestation from groups of documents which have preserved the other ancient forms of text.  This is a fact of great significance, ascertained as it is exclusively by external evidence, and therefore supplying an absolutely independent verification and extension of the result already obtained by comparison of the internal character of readings as classified by inflation."
 F.J.A. Hort Introduction pg 115-119 (gathered from The Byzantine text type and New Testament textual criticism by Harry A. Sturz)
       Now we must focus on this argument, because dominant protestant NT was always the Textus Receptus. The different Bibles were Catholic Orthodox and Jewish.  So to change the text was comparable to changing the canon.  So why is God's Holy Word subject to challenge?  The first pillar of the challenge is lack of Byzantine manuscripts prior to AD300.  So if there is evidence that there are ancient Byzantine manuscripts prior to that date, then the whole motive for replacing the TR and the majority of english Bibles are KJV.  Therefore if the evidence of the book is compelling then the Alexandrine argument is grossly fraudulent.
B. conflated text
""...we are led to conclude that the hypothesis provisionally allowed [i.e., that where the Syrian text differs from all other extant ancient texts, its authors may have copied some other equally ancient and perhaps purer text now other wise lost] must now be definitely rejected, and to regard the Syrian text as not only partly but wholly derived from other known ancient texts.  It follows that all distinctively Syrian readings may be set aside at once as certainly originating after the middle of the third century, and therefore, as far as transmission is concerned, corruptions of the apostolic text."
FJA Hort introduction pg. 116
This is the capstone of the alexandrine argument.  There has to be an origin for the Byzantine text.  If the Alexandrine the true text, then there must have been a conflation,  once there is not then the reliability of that Alexandrine MS will erode.  Since historically it's reproduction disappeared.

How can you prove a conflation?
                 Answer: By the manuscripts alone
   "We are told nothing as to the amount of revision which he undertook in either Old or New Testament text, the nature of the manuscripts which he consulted, the relation of his work to the hexapla and other similar matters.  We must turn to the manuscripts which have been thought to contain the Lucian Recension"
Bruce Metzger
Here we can see the entire argument is not funded upon historical data; but instead upon critical theory or the guesswork of liberal scholars.

Where is the history?
"The silence is inexplicable: it is not what one would expect.  It seems logical  that there should be as great or greater reaction to the replacement of a whole Greek New Testament (The original language) than there was to Jerome's revision of the Old Latin (a translation).
The Byzantine text type and New Testament textual criticism by Harry A. Sturz

*It should be noted that modern critical text advocates have shied away from the lucian recension theory since they lack any historical support for it.

"I am not here arguing for or against a theory that sees the genesis of the Byzantine text as a systematic conflation of other texts, even though some conflation certainly occurred"
The king James Version Bible debate pg. 51 D.A.Carson
    However, they must still argue for the recension even though they can no longer pinpoint a single historical example.
"Most believe the Byzantine represents a later period in which readings from other text-types were put together ('conflated') into the reading in the byzantine text This is not to say the Byzantine does not contain some distinctive readings that are quite ancient, but that the readings that are unique to that text type are generally secondary or later readings.  Since the byzantine comes from a later period(the earliest texts are almost all Alexandrian in nature, not Byzantine), it is 'fuller' in the sense that it not only contains conflations of the other text types, but it gives evidence of whay might be called 'the expansion of piety'.  That is, additions have been made to the text that flow from a desire to protect and reverence divine truth's"
James White The king James Only Controversy pg.43
Here Alexandrine advocates can not even endorse the recension theory, which deniesthem the logical right to ever win the argument.

  If there is no proof of a historical recension then the text must be authentic
"A text type is either recensional or not recensional.  By "recensional"  I mean that a text has come into being by conscious revision, editing, or conflation or by change over a period of time as part of a directed developing process.  If this does not explain the genesis of a particular text, then that text is simply the copy of a copy; it is not recensional at all."
The king James Version Bible debate pg. 53 D.A.Carson

 So why is there a minority of early byzantine manuscripts?  
 As mentioned by Dr. White their was on-going persecution of Christians in the east from both the roman empire early on and the Muslims later.  It is very well possible that either Muslim or Roman occupation of the east would have to a burning of the original manuscripts as well as several other early manuscripts.  But just because there was this destruction of the ancient text doesn't mean that they were gone, once the Byzantine scholars had them.
"The first Edicts calling for the persecution of Christians came in March 303.  Diocletian ordered  the cessation of the meetings of the Christians, the destruction of the churches, the deposition of the officers of the church, the imprisonment of those  who persisted in their testimony to Christ,  and the destruction of  the scriptures by fire." 
Christianity through the centuries Earl E. Cairns pg. 92

"All this was fulfilled in our day when we saw with our own eyes our houses of worship thrown down from their elevation, the sacred scriptures of inspiration committed in the flames in the midst of the markets, the shepherds of the people basely concealed here and there, some of them ignominiously captured and the sport of their enemies; when,also, according to another  prophetic declaration, "contempt was poured out upon their rulers, and he made them to err in atrackless by-path, and where there is no road." (ps.107:40)"Eusibius' Ecclesiastical history book 8 chapter 2 translated by C.F. Cruse

"It was in the nineteenth year of the reign of diocletian and the month of dystrus, called by the Romans March, in which the festival of our Savior's passion was at hand, when the imperial Edicts were everywhere published to tear down the churches tot heir foundations and to destroy the sacred scriptures by fire.Eusibius' Ecclesiastical history book 8 chapter 2 translated by C.F. Cruse

 Moslem take-over

"Both the eastern and the Western sections of the church were weakened by losses of people and territory to Islam, but the losses of the eastern churches were greater than those of the west.  The strong North African Church disappeared and Egypt and the Holy Land were lost.  The eastern Churches were able to do little more than hold back the muslim hordes from sweeping past Constantinople."  Christianity through the centuries Earl E. Cairns pg.169-171

"The lack of old Byzantine church buildings concerned me. At one time the city had been a lively Christian community.  Of course, there are explanations, as I realized when I took time to think about it.  The Arab conquest beginning in the seventh century, completed by the eighth, and reknewed in the ninth had a catastrophic effect upon this community, as well as throughout the mediterranean and middle east area.  Christianity here was already riddled and weakened by theological quarrels and disunity among churches and their leaders.  Then came an uneasy truce between Christianity ad islam, which could be shattered by a whim of a sultan and often was.
     The devastation and total destruction of Christian church buildings in Asia minor was complete when Seljuk Turks became masters of the whole Middle East in the eleventh century.  On their way to  capture Jerusalem in 1087, while their capital was konya, they destroyed all churches in Asia Minor in their way except the underground, hard to read Byzantine churches and chapels at Cappadocia that managed to outlive the Seljuk sacking.  It was this intolerant Moslem Turkish offensive that was to provoke the First crusade and send the crusaders off from Europe through Asia Minor to rescue Palestine and Jerusalem, then closed to Christian Pilgrimage.  So it is that no old church buildings survive in Konya today."
Traveling through turkey: An excursion into history and religion Harriet-Louise H. Patterson pg 157-158

Not only can heretics warp scriptural teaching they can tear up the manuscripts and they have historically!
"(1) In a work written by one of these authors against the heresy of Arteman, which Paul of Samosata again attempted among us, there was a narrative well-adapted to the history we are now investigating...
"(3)  "They assert" said he "that all those primitive men and apostles themselves, both received and taught these things as they are now taught by them, and that the truth of the gospel was preserved until the times of Victor who was the thirteenth Bishop of Rome from Peter.  But that from his successor Zephyrinus, the truth was mutilated.
"(4) And perchance what they say might be credible, were it not that the Holy Scriptures contradict them; and then, also, there are works of certain brethren older than Victor times which they wrote in defense of the truth, and against heretics then prevailing. I speak of Justus and Miltiades, and Tatian and Clement, and many others  in which the deity of Christ is asserted.......
"(13) To this, we will also add other extracts from the same writer respecting this sect: "The sacred scriptures " said he "have been boldly perverted by them; the rule of faith they have set aside, Christ they have renounced, not inquiring what the Holy Scriptures declared, but zealously what form of reasoning may be devised to establish their impiety...
"(15) But as to these men who abused the acts of the unbelievers, to their own heretical views, who adulterate the simplicity of faith contained in the holy Scriptures, by the wily arts of impious men; where is the necessity of asserting that they are not right in their faith?  For this purpose they fearessly lay their hands upon the holy Scriptures saying they have corrected them.
"(16) And that I do not say this against them without foundation, whoever wishes may learn; for should anyone collect and compare their copies with one another, he would find them greatly at variance among themselves.
"(17) For the copies of Asclepiodotus will be found to differ  from those of theodotus.  Copies of many you may find in abundance, altered, by the eagerness of their disciples to insert each one of their own corrections, as they call them, i.e, their corruptions.  Again, the copies of Hermophilus do not agree with these , for those of Apolonius are not consistent within themselves. For one may compare those which were prepared before by them, with those which afterwards perverted for their own objects, and you will find them widely differing....
   "For either they do not believe that the holy scriptures were uttered by the Holy Spirit, and they are thus infidels, or they deem themselves wiser than the holy spirit, and what alternative is there but to pronounce them demoniacs?"

Eusibius' Ecclesiastical history book 8 chapter 28 translated by C.F. Cruse

Age burning
"The same extreme care which was devoted to the transcription of manuscriptsis also at the bottom of the disappearance of the earlier copies.  When a manuscript had been copied with the exactitude prescribed by the Talmud, and had been dutifully verified, it was accepted as authentic and regarded as being of equal value with any other copy.  If all were equally correct, age gave no advantage to a manuscript, on the contrary age was a positive disadvantage, since a manuscript was liable to become defaced or damaged in the lapse of time.  A damaged or imperfect copy was at once condemned as unfit for use.
   "Attached to each synagogue was a 'Gheniza' or lumber cupboard, in which defective manuscripts were laid aside : and from these receptacles some of the oldest manuscripts no extant  have in modern times been recovered.  Thus far from regarding an older copy of scripture more valuable, the Jewish habit has been to prefer the newer, as being the most perfect and free from damage.  The Older copies once consigned to the 'Gheniza' naturally perished, either from neglect or from being deliberately burned when the Gheniza became overcrowded." 

Frederick Kenyan Our Bible and Ancient manuscripts
Christianity was a Jewish sect and it seems obvious that they would preserve the in the same manner through the scriptorium.

Later manuscripts may have had access to the originals(or near to the originals)
Though the originals would be burned, they would have to be preserved.  Therefore the later may have indeed simply been copies brought and preserved through the later Byzantine copies. 
   It was the understanding of Westcott and Hort.  Those manuscripts should be classified into families with similarities.  they then went from this reasoning to the assumption that those manuscripts that are alike would then be related to each other in some way or another.  But while there are noticeable similarities, can they truly guarantee a full lineage?

"Hardly any have been copies from any of the rest.  On the contrary, they are discovered to differ among themselves in countless unimportant particulars: and ever here and there  single copies exhibit idiosyncrasies, which are altogether startling and extraordinary.  There has therefore demonstrably been  no collusion- no assimilation to an arbitrary standard, no wholesale fraud.  It is certain that every one of them represents a MS., or a pedigree of MSS., older than itself."
Traditional text of the Holy Gospels pg 46-47 Dean John Burgeon

In other words, if all the byzantine manuscripts were from one common plot, then they would have been exactly alike.  Yet they all have spelling errors,and word order errors that are in totally different areas.  So while they are the same in the words they write, and therefore showing one text type; they are so different in grammatical errors that they had to be independent of each other, otherwise this would have been corrected.

  Here Dr. Wilbur Pickering Argues for the power of the majority of witnesses.
"Even Hort acknowledged the presumption inherent in superior numbers. 'A theoretical presumption indeed remains that a majority of extant documents is more likely to represent a majority of  ancestral documents at each stage of transmission than vice versa.' The work of those who have done extensive collating of MSS has tended to confirm this presumption. Thus Lake, Blake, and New found only orphon children among the MSS they collated, and declared further that there were almost no siblings each MS is an 'orphan child'.  This means that they are independent witnesses, at least in their own generation."
Wilbur Pickering The identity of the New Testament text pg 130, 131
  Pickering catches Dr. Hort admitting that the fact that a text is reproduced in the majority (like over 90%!) would make one naturally assume that the text has more ancient roots.  Pickering finds several Biblical Scholars who conclude that the genealogical theories are debunked.

How closely related are they? D.A. Carson argues

"What recent studies have shown, I think, is that the four classic text-types are too neatly isolatedPerhaps we are forced to conclude that most early manuscripts are mixes.  If so the boundaries between text types becomes hazy, like the change from color in a rainbow; but it still does not follow that the concept text types is entirely dispensable, any more than we could dispense with colors  of the rainbow, or argue that those colors can not be distinguished from another.
The king James Version Bible debate pg. 109 D.A.Carson
   Carson is arguing against the Majority Text position of Wilbur Pickering.  Pickering has debunked the idea of isolated genealogical text type families.  In other words, the idea that the scribes were isolated from each other and had no choice in what text type to copy.  Carson tries to rebound that the text type families still exist and they were detectable.
  However, here is where the modern textual critic has found itself trapped.  If these scribes were aware of alternative readings, then the vast majority of them chose to reject the alexandrine  text type.

  When you have any type of hand-craft, the skill usually revolves around the region: or those who are more closely linked to the christian.  For instance, I would rather eat Mexican food from my new Mexican aunt June than Taco Bell any day of the week! (but she would eat at Taco bell sometimes anyway.)
  There are two regional directions of authenticity to look for in regards to the preservation of the New Testament text.  First, is the Jewish scribal tradition of preservation and then next is the location of the original manuscripts.
As shown elsewhere in the book, the byzantine text was influenced by the school of Antioch.  Antioch was not only a powerful early church with a decent reputation, it also had a huge scribal influence. The Jew and the Jewish Christians would not tolerate poorly constructed biblical texts as authoritative.
  Finally, the majority of the original manuscripts of the New Testament hovered across Asia minor all the way into the 2nd century.
''Come now who would indulge a better curiosity, if you would apply it to the business of salvation, run over the apostolic churches. In which the very thrones of the apostles are still pre- eminent in their places. in which their own authentic writings are read. uttering the voice and representing the face of each severally. Achaia is very near you, [in which] you find Corinth. Since you are not far from Macedonia, you have Phillipi: (and there too) you have the Thessalonians. Since you are able to cross to Asia. Ephesus. Since. more over. you are close}' upon Italy you have Rome, from which there comes even into our own hands the very authority (of the Apostles themselves). How happy is it's church, on which the apostles poured forth their blood!" Tertullian On Persecution against heretics 208AD

What is significant about this statement is that the location of the original manuscripts is centered around the area of the byzantine text family and was preserved at least up to 200AD. Could it not be conceivable that copies of the originals being made by local Asians have exact copies that would last until the next century when we had the first preserved major Byzantine manuscripts?

"Speaking in terms of regions, Asia Minor may be safely said to have had twelve (John, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Philemon, 1 Peter, 1 and 2 and 3 John and Revelation) Greece may be safely said to have six (1 and 2 Corinthians, Philippians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians and Titus in Crete), Rome may have safely been said to have two (Mark and Romans)- as to the rest, Luke, Acts and 2 Peter  were probably held by either Asia Minor or Rome; Matthew and James by either Asia Minor or Palestine; Hebrews by Rome or Palestine;while it is hard to state even a probability fo rJude it was quite possibly held by Asia Minor, Taking Asia Minor and Greece together, the Aegean area held the autographs of at least eighteen(two-thirds of total) and possibly as many as twenty-four of the twenty seven New Testament books; Rome held at least two and possibly up to seven; Palestine may have held up t three; Alexandria(Egypt) held none!  The Aegean region clearly had the best start and Alexandria the worst. (Identity pg. 111.)Wilbur Pickering "Can Anything good come out of [Egypt]?"
     While Alexandria Egypt was hundreds of miles away and across the Mediterranean. Why would they be the only ones to copy the manuscript down exactly?  Not only that, but it had no apostolic heritage, and was infested with many varieties of heretics.  (the gnostics, monophysites, Arians, subordinationists etc.)  Who by the way are not fluent in the new Testament Greek!
"To copy a text by hand in a language you do not understand is a tedious exercise- it is almost  impossible to produce a perfect copy.  you virtually have to copy letter by letter and constantly check your place (It is even more difficult if there is no space between the words and no punctuation, as was the case with the N.T. text in the early centuries.)  But if you can not understand the text it is very difficult to remain alert. Consider the case of p66.  This papyrus manuscript is perhaps the oldest (c.200) extant manuscript of any size (it contains most of John). It is one of the worst copies we have.  It has an average of roughly two mistakes per verse- many being obvious mistakes, stupid mistakes, nonsensical mistakes.  I have no qualms in affirming that the person that produced p66 did not know GreekHad he understood the text he would not have made the number of and sort of mistakes that he did." Wilbur Pickering "Can Anything good come out of [Egypt]?" 

Majority text

"A theoretical presumption indeed remains that the majority of extant documents is more likely to represent a majority of ancestral documents at each stage of transmission than vice versa."
"As of 1994 Kurt and Barbara Alund produced their latest combined statistics of extant manuscripts of the New Testament and estimated there to be 5,656 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in varying form.  However in 1967, Kurt Aland provided additional analysis of existing manuscripts.  At that time, he noted a total of 5,255 New Testament manuscripts of varying form,  Of that number 5,210 manuscripts supported the received text.  In his 26th edition of the Nestle'-Aland Greek Text, Aland considered 5,210 manuscripts to belong to the received text group.  Or to put it another way, he determined that only forty-five of those 5,255 manuscripts were something other than the recieved text.  It was from those forty five manuscripts that the 26th edition of the Nestle'-Aand text was produced.  Therefore in 1967, 99percent of all existing manuscripts favored the recieved text and only 1 percent supported the critical textThat percentage has changed only slightly in the intervening years as other manuscripts have been discovered."
David H. Sorenson Touch not the unclean thing**
    Now there have been several critics who have argued against the majority text argument.  Many argue that if numbers  is the main way of criticism, then we should look at the latin text.which has over 10,000 copies.
  First of all, few if any kjvo's and majority text critics operate on number arguments alone.  Secondly, a large number of Latin manuscripts can lead us toard what the latin text says, but it can never be the primary means of understanding Greek so long as we have Greek text to compare it with.  They do have the ability to weigh in and witness to text families.  But they are subjective and do not have as high an authority in the issue.  Third, we know that Jerome openly revised the traditional Latin text and so it is naturally more of a secondary text.
  The Latin does have a definite place and witness, just not primarily in the text debate.  The KJV and early English Translations do rely heavily on the Latin and vulgate in translational issues however, proving that the KJV wasn't ignorant of other biblical texts.

Unity vs disunity of the text
 "J.H. Ropes describes the quality of the codex: Codex Siniaticus is carelessly written, with many lapses of spelling due ti the influence of dialectal and vulgar speech, and many plain errors, and crude vagaries. Omissions by homoeoteleuton abound, and there are many other careless ommissions.  All these gave a large field for the work of correctors, and the manuscript does not stand by any means on the same level of workmanship as B."
 Paul D. Wegner The Journey from the Texts to the Translations

Western text
"There is considerable scholarly dispute about this text type.  Some scholars hold that the Western text is the creation of a group of scribes whose work developed ina more rather than less confusion as each generation of scribes toiled without knowledge or care, A few contend for an individual scribe at the heart of the tradition.  Others argue that the text type is not homogenous enough to be a true textual recension, and postulate that the manuscripts classified under the "Western" rubric sprang from fairly wild and undisciplined  scribal activity."
D. A. Carson The King James Bible Debate pg. 26-27

Caesarian text
"The text type probably originated in egypt and may have been brought in Caesarea by Origen.  It boast a unique mixture of Western(above) and Alexandrian (below) readings, prompting some scholars to question the value of calling it a text type."
D. A. Carson The King James Bible Debate pg.27
  So essentially we have  a small minority text that still has more disagreements than it's competitor, even though the majority texts is 1oo times larger!

"At the close of the second or beginning of the third century, parts of the New Testament began to circulate in Syria in what is called the Old Syriac version."
Ancient translations Peshitta pg. 26, 30 The Bible in Translation Bruce Metzger

"Therefore, Peshitta should not be confused with the 5th century Bible revisions in Aramaic and new versions which were made from Greek.  None of those new Revisions and versions made by the Monophysite Bishops in the 5th century has ever been accepted by the Church in the East."
Preface to the Holy Bible from Ancient manuscripts[Peshitta} George M. Lamsa Itala pg. 30

"Noteworthy Old Latin Readings frequently agree with the Greek text of the codex Bezae and the Old Syriac." Pg. 30 The Bible in Translation Bruce Metzger
  It has been said by a few KJV advocates that the Antiochan School sent missionaries out west to give them ancient copies of the New Testament.  That the Old Itala copies were from this group of missionaries and that copies existed in Africa(such as donatist) and North Italy.  The North Africans were devout conservative Anabaptist like Christians who would eventually be wiped out by the muslims.  Yet the North Italians  would later move to the alps being known as the Voudois, later revealing themselves as the Waldensians of the dark ages.  Preserving the Greek Manuscript later named Codex Bezae after they donated it to the reformer Theodore Bezae.  The Old Latin would soon be the basis of their french Waldenses Bible.  So with one with one sentence Metzger has opened up a can of worms supporting the Textus Receptus!
  Now I want to be honest, there are several spurious  Old Latin manuscripts, but that should not disqualify the witness of the ones in agreement with Syriac.

"The codex Argentus(the Silver Codex) of the early sixth century is a delux copy of the four gospels, written with silver ink on the purple parchment...
"The order of the gospels is the so-called western order (Matthew, John, Luke, Mark). like that of two fifth century Greek manuscript (Codex Bezae and Codex Washingtonianus), a few of the older Peshitta manuscripts and a considerable number of Old Latin manuscripts."
pg. 39 The Bible in Translation Bruce Metzger
  Here we have another example of an ancient manuscript in agreement more with the traditional text.

"More manuscripts of the Armenian version are extant today than those of any other ancient version, with the exception of the Latin Vulgate...
"MOst scholars have been impressed by several types of evidence pointing to a close affinity between the Armenian and the Greek text."

pg. 41-42 The Bible in Translation Bruce Metzger
     By the way, the Greek text here is obviously Byzantine. 

  Admittedly a revised work because of the differences among Itala Bibles.  Jerome was nervous about a revision.  He used the LXX and some Hebrew along with a text that was Western or Alexandrine Greek. This is discussed  in the Chapter "the Catholic connection"

Georgian"In spite of some legendary concerning miracles by Nino, historians are inclined to accept the date of about the middle of the fourth century for the introduction of Christianity among the Georgians..."Apart from such traditionalists it is generally accepted that at the least the gospels some other parts of the New Testament had were made available in written form for Georgian Christians by about the middle of the fifth century...
"It is debated whether the translation was made from the Greek, Armenian, or Syriac."

pg. 43-44 The Bible in Translation Bruce Metzger
  Here we see a 5th century manuscript. By the fact that there are 3 contenders for the translation, it is obvious the text used was traditional /Byzantine.  Though Bruce obviously go into detail about this fact.
"By the fifth or sixth century, portions of the Bible were translated into Ethiopic (for Ge'ez as ethiopic is called; see fig15.5)[sic], probably by monophysite monks (i.e. they held that Christ had only one nature) who fled to Ethiopia due to persecution by Byzantine rulers.  It was through the influence of these monks that Coptic  and Ethiopic churches came to be monophysite."
 Paul D. Wegner The Journey from the texts to the translations
    So here we have a translation that does not lean "Byzantine text" even critics admit that it was translated by heretical Monophysites.

Which majority?
Many oppose to a KJVO position would argue that this is an out of balance minority.  After all while the majority of the Greek text.  The western text has stronger support in the Latin tradition and their 10,000 ancient copies of the Latin text.  However if we are going to consider this line of reasoning, then we must look to the majority of all the ancient manuscripts, period. Then you will find many ancient language translations that more than out number the Latin text like the Syrian, Armenian and Gothic text which support Byzantine Readings.  Yet since we keep the Greek text as our primary text source we must focus upon it, and that is obviously dominate Byzantine.

Textual examples

Matthew 6:13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. "
  The reformation doctrine Sola Gloria Deo meaning "The Glory to God alone" is central to this verse. Yet the catholic Bibles early on with Jerome denied this text.  Finis Dake nottices that "out of over 500 codices only 8 omit it" (Dake Annotated Reference Bible)
Scholars have noticed the Biblical quality of this verse and it's relation to David's prayer.
1 Chronicles 29:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 11 Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted as head above all."
David was praising the Lord for an overwhelming offering. it seems quite poetic that the end of the Lord's prayer is in praise to God, it seems incomplete with an ending of petitions.  This brings up the common teaching of God as taking orders of humanity.  It seems rather awkward to end a question with a finishing "amen".  Yet an ending of God's praise especially this has a natural brilliance.  I once attended an ecumenical event where a catholic man sang the Lord's prayer and contrary to his religion he got tearful at the climax singing this phrases which is normally omitted from Catholic worship.

Mark 9:43-48Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
  One thing that people forget is that the Hebrews had poetic use of repetition in their prose to emphasize a point.  Their is nothing particularly odd about Jesus doing this.  Why would someone want to add repetition to the text?  They wouldn't need it since he already stated it.

Mark 16:9-20(AKJV) 9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."
   This is the largest text, which being argued over in debate of text types between the alexandrian and Received Text. Many forget that this text epitomizes the debate in the sense that the number of ancient texts with this passage is vastly dominating and that the only real contention is found in the Alexandrian manuscripts. 
   Modern Scholarship uses this text to significantly diminish the doctrine of the resurrection. (1 Corinthians gives eye-witnesses to it but not the account). Modern scholarship claims that Mark was the 1st gospel.  Not only this but the same group which has much sway in modern evangelical seminaries claim that the gospels originated naturally, and therefore, Mark  was the primary source for the other gospels. So if  the primary sources for the other gospels does not have a resurrecgtion account, then was there one to begin with?

let's see where the gospel stops...
Mark 16:1-8Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 16 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. 7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. 8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
  Here the account appears different.  They came to the tomb with the stone rolled away.  Then they see a boy.  Other gospels say it was an angel.  This is fine in the sense that angels can apear in human form.  However, if we believe that this is the primary gospel and approach the text naturallistically we can assume that other gospels were trying to modify the story.  To make it appear more miraculous.
   On a spiritual level the shorter version us a horribly pathetic message.  that the Resurrection was in fact recorded by a bunch of bumbling women who didn't understand what was going on and didn't stop to find any rock solid evidence because they were startled by a little boy.  Consider the sexism of the day, women were not seen as very credible witnesses anyhow.  The result of the resurrection causes  them to go into shock and not want to tell others.(vrs 8) Is this really the gospel?
   The boy tells them Christ is risen.  However, this word is a little hazy.  It does not always refer to physical resurrection. (Matt 11:11, Luke 7:16) Therefore, the boy could have been saying Jesus spiritually arose.  Secondly, even if he was saying that Jesus had physically rose from the dead what credibility does he have?  He could , according to this version, have been part of a grave robbing crew trying to scare away noisy women.  He also simply might have made assumptions from the empty tomb itself.  There is only a possible assumption to a resurrection in the 1st gospel but no genuine proof.  That is, if Mark was the first gospel and the text of Mark 16:9-20 was illegitimate.  Then we have very weak if any proof that Mark believed or recorded the resurrection, and therefore it is not an essential aspect to the gospel.  Have non-Christians picked up on this? ( ask Bart Ehrman)

Mark 16:9Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
  Pro-Alexandrian scholars who favor this verse like to argue the "Now" shows a separation indicating that this passage was probably added on. This would indicate that the passage is not seen as continuous with the Gospel.  The stupidity behind this attack is that the very word "Now" is not found in the Greek Textus Receptus!  it is one of those "Italicized words" added to the text to mtch up with proper English grammar!
Jay P. green translates this passage in the interlinear New Testament as such.
"He told you.  And going out quickly, they fled from the tomb, held and then trembling and ecstasy; and no one nothing they told; they were afraid for. having risen and early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdelene, from whom He had cast seven devils."
(Mark 16:8-9 Jay P. Green ultra literal translation)
If we look at this, I believe the issue is that the translators and verse dividers, not author have put up a false division.  I would argue that when the chapter and verse divisions were originally placed , they cut short  on the Greek Word 'Anistas' or 'risen' should have been translated with vrs 8.making it end more like "and they were  very fearful for his having risen."  This is probably not discussed by the alexandians, because it would prove the authenticity of the passage!

Mark 16:10-14Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen."that the rushed details indicate that this was not part of the text and was added  after other gospels.  But if we reject the assumption
   Many argue that the rushed details indicate that this was not part of the text and was added after the other gospels.  But if we reject the assumption that Mark was the first gospel. (an idea not supported by church history) and remember that Mark being the "Roman Gospel" could have been under persecution and may  have just been rushed anyhow.  But most Bible commentators agree that the Whole gospel was indeed at a rushed pace compared to the other three anyhow. 
"Tregelles(1854) admitted "that arguments on style are often very fallacious, and that by themselves prove very little'"
Edward Hills The King James Bible Version defended ch. 6 e.
Mark 16:15-20Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
    When we look at the manuscript evidence for the text, it is staggering.  It is shocking to see this much lay forth when it is currently so universally denied.
Many times I have heard evangelicals argue that the text in question is doctrinally neutral and that their existence makes no difference but it was interesting to read the NIV Study Bible's opinion.
"Serious doubt exist as to whether these verses belong to the gospel of Mark.  They are absent form important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary. style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark.  His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or it's original ending has been lost."
NIV Study Bible    
      It is obvious from there commentary that they dislike the theological content of the passage as well as had no concern inspiration of the words of Mark.  Yet the case is far from closed on the issue.
   One fact that is purposely forgotten is that there were sources of scripture before the making of the Alexandrine text.  One of the churches most recognized father's was Irenaeus.(lived in the 2nd century)  He is famous for being a disciple of Polycarp a martyr who was a disciple of St. John the Apostle who was taught by JESUS!. Irenaeus was most famous for his Contribution to the Canon of Scripture.  It was Irenaeus who helped defend the gospel of John and more importantly Revelation.
             There is no mistake that he is quoting scripture.  I will quote a portion of the text "Against Heresies" Chapter 6 Where Irenaeus is arguing for the Deity of Christ.

"For the promise did announce one and another God , but one and the same; under various aspects, however many titles.  For varied and rich in attribute is the Father as I have already shown in the book preceding this; and I shall show [the same show] from the prophets themselves in further prophets themselves in the further course of this work.  Also towards the conclusion of his gospel, Mark says, "So then, after the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God:" confirming what had been spoken by the prophet:"The Lord said to my Lord sit thou on my right hand until I make thy foes Thy footstool" Thus God and the Father are one and the same; He who was announced by the prophets, and handed down by the true gospel; whom we Christians worship and love. with the whole heart, as the maker of heaven and earth, and of all things therein."
Irenaeus against heresies chapter 6

     So back to square one, why if Irenaeus recorded this so fervently in defense of the Deity of Christ, is it not considered evidence when this  took place before the so-called most reliable manuscripts existed?
    Many Alexandrian advocates have actually question Irenaeus accuracy, but you should be careful in doing such as he played a central role in establishing Christian theology in light of the attacks of gnosticism. 
     For instance...
"Judgement about the authenticity of canonical writings was based on the idea that the tradition of the church in this matter was trustworthy in general, although it could be wrong in detail.  The scholars did not accept the tradition uncritically; they did their best to verify whether books in question were actually written by Apostles or by those on touch with apostles.  As long as there was uncertainty about apostolic authorship.  There was reluctance to accept books as canonical.  Thus St. john's gospel was not readily accepted at first, and it was only after Irenaeus gave what was thought sufficient proof of it's authorship by John that it's canonicity was established."

A concise History of the Catholic Church by Thomas Bokenkotter pg 34
   Now it was basically Irenaeus calling to Identify true scripture.  In Alexandrine theory this passage should not have existed.  If you contend Irenaeus to have added this to scripture question the New Testament canon itself!  Not to claim Irenaeus as the sole foundation but without apostolic connection and authenticity the canon is put into serious question.

 John 1:18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
  Alexandrine manuscripts replace the word "Son" with "God" Therefore the Word of God becomes a begotten God.  This matches the theology of arianism.  You can see this clearly when you read the literal NASB translation.  The question asked is if this is an Arian verse.  If you read the "New World" Translation published by the Arian "Watch Tower Society" (Jehovah's Witness) then the answer is obvious.  I have a Watch Tower article from 1960 endorsing the Alexandrian text  for it's less trinitarian reading.

john 753 And every man went unto his own house. 8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her,   Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
One of the most famous passages dealing with forgiveness.  Many scholars today admit it probably was from Christ, only they deny it was in John.  Yet why would churches which held very strict anti-sexual laws want to place in a passage referring the free forgiveness of an Adulterer?

Acts 7:30Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:30New American Standard Bible (NASB)
30 “After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in the flame of a burning thorn bush.
Exodus 3:2Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Exodus 3:2New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of [a]a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed."
  If one believes in the inerrancy of scripture this becomes a troubling text.  The Alexandrian text removes the phrase "of the Lord" which when placed with angel gives us the figure of a theophany or meeting with God. Thus this changes the meaning of the text.
The Old testament reference in exodus whether the modern or ancient texts agrees that the angel of the Lord appeared in the burning bush  The TR is consistent with both Old testament manuscripts and in harmony in the KJV.  But the Alexandrine readings contradict the moder OT and therefore contradicts itself!

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
   This is an example of a ludicrous historical argument.  Christian society, at the time of the copying of these texts. was paedo-baptists.  This verse argues for the Ana-baptist position.  What's more, episcopate and Papal Authority would not include this type of thing.  It seems more likely that Alexandrians cut out the text to feel better about infant baptism.

/1 Timothy 3:16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
"There is much to be said in defense of the kjv rendering of 1 timothy 3:16 as 'God was manifest in the flesh.' In fact I prefer this reading and feel that it has more sufficient support from the greek manuscripts."
James White The King James Bible Controversy pg. 207
Here in the text "God" is replaced with "he".  Turning it into "he was manifested in the flesh"  But how was that a great mystery of godliness?  I was manifested in the flesh and so were you!  It makes sense if the rendering is "God" since, then, we are talking about the incarnation.  Is the incarnation of Christ a major doctrine?  Once again the very fundamentals of the faith are being attacked through the Alexandrine text.

1 john 5:7
  This is the most criticized of all the Textus Receptus.  most of all because it is a high minority even among the Byzantine text.  However it was included in the Textus Receptus and if this was the preserved Word of God, then 1John 5:7 must be defended.
"7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Manuscript evidence (here I will argue in reverse order from weakest to strongest arguments)
 English Translations:
     A.  Unanimous early English translations:
             I decided to start with a more subjective point of reference to the proofs of this text.  The origins of English versions has unanimously testified to it.
             Starting with John Wycliffe.translated his text hundreds of years before Erasmus.  Therefore we can't blame Erasmus on the inclusion of the text.  Yet Wycliffe when observing the Latin text went  and translated the passage.

 "Although modern scholarship stresses Wycliff's reliance on Vulgar readings, a later revision of the work done by John Purvy which brought the translation back in tune with Jerome makes it evident that Wycliffe had access to some Old Latin Manuscripts.  Purvey's later defection to Rome sheds added light on the issue."
Final Authority William P. Grady pg 123(referring to R.W. Thompsons Life of Jesuits)
         It should be remembered that the Old Latin "Itala" Bible had been dated back to as far as the the 2nd century.  though the copies today are lost, there are many quotes today  from the Church father's using this manuscript.
        Next we see the inclusion of William Tyndale.  Tyndale had both testimonies of Erasmus and Wycliffe.  The linguistic scholar that he was (he could speak 7 languages fluently) He could have easily weighed in on Wycliffe's assessment of the latin manuscripts as well as Erasmus assessment of the old british manuscript which contained the "comma" along with other manuscripts which didn't.  Not to mention that he was wel aware of erasmus initial protest on the issue.  He was still faithful to this verse abd felt it worthy in his translation of the Greek text.  The Coverdale Bible and the Matthew Bible  both had influence from Tyndale though they compared theirs with differet translations still keeping the text.  A translation of Great notability is thde Geneva Bible,  all keeping in line with the Textus Receptus.
   Through the history of English Translations there could have been other revisions, which excluded the comma, but they did not.  Even the Roman Catholic "Douay Rheims" version with it's leniency on Alexandrine readings keeps this statement.
B. Spread with the Authorized Versions and and A,V, Translations.
     The majority of Bibles contain the comma Johanine.  Why does God allow this consistent "supposed error"?  History has no accountability with God's providence in the lost gospels of modern version theory.  God has allow not only the king James bible to keep this text but all the foreign language bibles in the worldwide missions movement of the 1800's.
C.  The original attacks were based upon Unitarian bias
    The early text critics who attacked this verse happened to be members of the Unitarian church.  they denied the trinity and were attacking the most trinitarian verse in the Bible! Obviously they had an agenda.  Among Bible believing Christians even less conservative the overwhelming consensus is in favor of admitting that scripture teaches the trinity.  Meanwhile the Unitarianism has fallen out of communion with Christianity and is modern days filled with members who do not identify with Christianity and often proclaim atheism.

Latin Manuscripts:
A:Vulgate: The early Vulgate removes this verse. jerome had alexandrine readings and was influenced by it. This however will work as a witness that this debate is much more historic and later scholars were well aware of it.
B.Later Vulgate:  The fact that the Vulgate is then revised back to include the verse says there was some Argument which was convincing to overturn the previous removal.
C. Old Latin Itala Bible:  The Old Latin which carries this verse is a very ancient testimony confirming it's authenticity.
    One interesting thought that occured to me is that Jerome is not criticized for using mostly Alexandrine readings of the text, he is only criticized when he used byzantine readings, Mark 16:9-20 and the Johanine Comma.  So the popular modern scholarship is indeed biased in favor alexandrine readings. Which are equivalent to Catholic readings.  So even with a tradition favoring Alexandrian readings, the fact that they include this text is weighty.
"While the Greek textual evidence is weak, the Latin textual evidence  for the Comma is extremely strong.  It is in the vast majority of the Old Latin manuscripts which outnumber the Greek manuscripts."
Dr. Thomas Holland Crowned with Glory 2000

Greek Manuscripts:

A.  Manuscripts of 1 john are few
          While there are almost 6,000 manuscripts of the Greek New Testament only 500 carry the epistle of 1st john.
B.  There are minorities of manuscripts that do have the comma in Greek
  "Although not found in most Greek manuscripts, the Johanine Comma is found in several.  It is contained in 629(fourteenth century), 61(sixteenth century) 918 (sixteenth century) 2473(seventeenth century), and  2318(eighteenth century), it is also in the margins of 221(tenth century), 635(eleventh century), 88 (twelveth century), 429(fourteenth century) and 636 (sixteenth century)"Dr. Thomas Holland Crowned with Glory

     Minority texts are given precedence all the time in the Critical Text, yet for some reason they focus on Comma more than others.
"Nevertheless, being a minority reading does not eliminate it as genuine.  The critical text considers the reading of Iesou(of Jesus)  to be the genuine reading instead of Iesou Christou (of Jesus Christ) in John 1:7.  Yet Iesuo was is the minority reading with only twenty-four manuscripts supporting it
Dr. Thomas Holland Crowned with Glory

C.  debunking the claim "Reformation scholarship was not competent to weigh in on the issue."
"The famous manuscript Vaticanus (written about AD 325-350 and considered by many modern scholars to be the most important manuscripts in existence) is believed to have been in the Vatican sometime before 1475.
The polyglot text itself, however, shows no dependence on vaticanus."
Pg. 228 A Visual History of English Bible Daniel Brake
       Codex vaticanus was indeed available to these scholars but they simply dismissed it beacause it was a terrible copy and that was apparent even in the catholic church
One popular myth
    First and foremost there has been a opular myth circulating in seminaries for years regarding Erasmus inclusion into the text.  In a nutshell, the legend says that Erasmus would not include this into the text unless there was a Greek manuscript which supported it.  So he was then presented with a Greek manuscript,which supported it, and there was still wet ink dripping from the page when he got it.  It may be a humorous joke, yet when alexadrine advocates like James White claim it to be factual then it is no longer funny.
      When asked if this story was aunthentic, leading Erasmus researcher  H.J. de Jonge dean of the faculty of theology at Rijksuniversiteit. (Leiden, Netherlands) stated that this was a myth from letter of Erasmus taken far out of context.  This was stated in a letter to Scholar Michael Maynard  in June 13, 1995.
  "I have checked again Erasmus words ' quoted by Erika rummel and her comments on them in her book 'Erasmus' Anotations.  This is what Erasmus writes [on] in his liber tertius quo respondet.... Ed. Lei: Erasmus first records that Lee had approached him with neglect of the MSS.  of 1 John because Er(according to Lee) had consulted one MS.  Erasmus replies that he certainly not used only one MS., but many copies, first in England, then in Brabant, and finally at Basil.  He cannot accept, therefore, Lee's reproach of negligence and impiety"
     So in layman's terms the story was not that Erasmus was dogmatically opposed to the Johanine comma and was challenging Edward Lee to find a manuscript.  But in reality the manuscripts had already been found.  Erasmus was just simply trying to justify himself for not initially including the text to begin with, stating that he had not found it in his personal library.  Erasmus did not put up a fight in reality he had included it afterwards in all his later editions.  Like many a proud scholar after him he was simply trying to justify himself when it became apparent the he had made a mistake.
Here is Erasmus own testimony...
"Is it negligence and impiety , if I did not consult  manuscripts which were not in my reach?  I have at least assembled  whatever I could assemble.  Let Lee produce a Greek MS.  Which contains what my edition does not contain and let him show the manuscript was within my reach.  Only then can he reproach me with negligence in sacred matters."
Michael Maynard (Maynard, A history of the debate Over 1 John5:7-8 p. 383 Comma Publications Tempe Arizona 1995.)
  The negligence of Erasmus is up for debate.  Yet after reading this the negligence of James White is a fact!  Why is it that we should defend modern version defenders when they do not search out their facts?  When their books never really cover the evidence put forward By KJVO advocates?  The modern version advocates have one the multitudes through the power of influence and ignorance.  I can tell a professor these facts and almost guarantee they will still push the Erasmus myth to feel good about themselves.
   But let's give White the benefit of the doubt and say Erasmus did have reservations about 1 john 5:7 and that someone slipped a bad manuscript in the Greek.  First of all Erasmus, being the scholar that he was would have spotted it.  There was no pressure for him to include the comma there was the earlier Vulgate for him to hang on to, and the codex vatican was available.  The RCC tolerated Him with his textus receptus readings against the vulgte hundreds of times, why would this be any different?  Erasmus was never disciplined his entire life either before or after the inclusion of the comma.
    As far as the reformers go, they had no sway over Erasmus, obviously, but also he had no official sway over them!  If Erasmus had 2 different edition of the Greek New Testament, then the Refvormers could have else just stayed faithful to the first edition. In fact the reformers did debate the legitamacy over this verse and others, but included it in all there versions such as Luther's German translation and the Geneva Bible.  The reformers would collated their own manuscripts later with more testimony of ancient Greek manuscripts and so this argument is a moot point, not to mention debunked.
      So if the comma Johanine is not in the majority of Greek New Testaments then why was it left out of so many?
     Obviously this had to have happened early on in the transmission of the text.  Since the later Greek manuscripts were aware of the damage done to the text over the centuries, they began to leave it in.  There were several motivations for easterners to damage this theological statement.  Most likely was the theological doctrine of subordinationism. The Alexandrine school starting Origen taught the the Father and son and Holy Spirit were not equal.  Instead that Father ruled over the so and Holy Ghost.  therefore this was a strong challenge to their orthodoxy.  So someone annihilated it.  Could this be ironically Lucian? I am unaware.

Hypocritical graciousness
   While the comma had some debate in the reformation period.  There was a great deal more controversy over this verse.
1 john 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things."
  Which actually they thought had a weaker testimony and was a minority text.  Modern critics do not  challenge it since it does have witness in the alexandrine manuscripts.  Why do they remove one minority text and uphold another?  Because of subjective Bias.  Without faith in the providence of God, the issue of manuscript accuracy becomes meaningless and subjective.
Church father's historical quotations
Cyprian quotes this passage as scripture in the 3rd century B.C.  Now it is argued that most of the early church fathers who quoted this text did not quote it as scripture.  However none of these fathers say that they are not quoting scripture.  Also it is easy to have a Preacher quote scriptures without citing them as to add to a spiritual effect in their messages.

Tertullian:  "So the close series of the Father in the Son and the
Son in the Paraclete makes three who cohere, the one attached
to the other: And these three are one , not one ,
in the sense in which it was said, I and the Father are one,4 in
respect of unity of substance, not of singularity of number. Take
a further quick glance, and you will find that he whom you
believe to be the Father is called the Father's vine,5
Against Praxeas ch. 25
It should be noticed that tertullian is dealing with the writings of John, explaining the trinity and the quote is in the same context as the comma.
Athanasius quoted this passage.  This is especially significant in that not only was Athanasius an Eastern church father but an Alexandrian scholar as well. (with the most conservative and orthodox reputation of course)  he could have easily dismissed this verse and probably was pressured to do so. yet he did so.
No Scholarly Defense?

"As to it's being wanting in some manuscripts, as the alexadrine and others, it need only be said that it is to be found in many others, it is an old British copy, and in the complutesian edition, the compilers of which use of  various copies: and out of the sixteen copies of Robert Stephens', nine of them had it: and as to its not being cited by ancient father's, this can be not be ancient proof of spuriousness of it since it might be an original copy, though no tint the copies used by them,  through the carelessness of unfaithfulness of transcribers; or it might be in their copies and not cited in them, they having Scripture enough without it to defend the doctrine of the trinity, and the divinity of Christ; and yet afterall, certain that it is, that it is cited by many of them; by 
Fulgentius in the beginning of the sixth century, against the Arians, without any scruple of hesitation; and Jerome, as had been observed before has it in his translation made in the larger part of the fourth century in his epistle to Eustochium prefixed to his translation of the canonical epistles,he complains of the omission by unfaithful interpretors.  It is cited by Athanasius about the year 350; and before him by Cyprian in the middle of the third century, about the year 250; and it is referred to by Tertullian about the year 200;  and which was within a hundred years, or a little more, of the writing of the epistle: which may be enough to satisfy anyone of the genuiness of the passage:  and besides there never was any dispute over it till Erasmus left it out of the first edition of his translation of the New Testament; and yet He himself upon the credit of the old British copy before mentioned it into another copy of his translation."  
John Gill, An Exposition of the New Testament
  john Gill was the one of the most recognized Baptist scholars in History.  The first reformed bible scholar to have exhausted commentaries on every book of the Bible. (Calvin excluded Revelation)

    D.A. Carson actually took this specific quote ad went about trying to refute it with as much dogmatism as he could muster.  Yet in the end none of his refutations were backed up with any documentation. Just platitudes, for instance in pg. 60 he states "Gill is wrong about the facts" at which point he begins to refute Gill with facts of his own. yet in his refutation, he never cites his own facts! He just guesses what manuscripts was referring to.  D.A Carson is using circular reasoning to prove his scholarship is superior to that of John Gill.
   Why should we trust D.A. Carson's scholarship is superior to that of John Gill?  because D.A. Carson said so!
textual defense
A. Joahnine vocabulary
    All the words are common in Johanine writing.  It was in the gospel of John that we have the discussion of "WORD"/logos.   We also find the most thorough discussion of the Holy Spirit and the Father Son relation.  We also find throughout this gospel and in his letter the discussion of Witness.  If John were this complex with expressions in his gospel, it would be arguable that in a later written letter, his theological complexity should increase and not decrease.  therefore this phrase is entirely fathomable within the mind of John.( though ultimately the mind of god.)
B. Greek consistency from feminine to masculine pronouns
   The grammar of John is actually incorrect in the Alexandrine version.  So could the Bible be without error if the very words were not receivable due to Grammatical error?  If so the title inerrant changes a great deal!
"..(he has not been consistent( in the way he has happened upon his terms; for after using Three in the masculine gender he adds three words which are neuter, contrary tot the definitions and laws  which you and your grammarians have laid down.  For what is the difference between putting a masculine Three first, then adding  One and One and One in the neuter, or after a masculine One and One and One to use the Three not in the masculine but in the neuter, which you yourselves disclaim in the case of Deity?"
Fifth Orientation of the Holy Spirit Gregory Naziansus    What is interesting is that one of the Byzantine Eastern Church fathers who did not possess the comma seems bewildered at the grammatical inconsistency of his manuscript.  This is a rock solid testimony to the internal need of the comma johanine in 1st John!

C. Record to witness flow

1 John 5:
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. "
    The context of this passage is the case for orthodoxy.  The subject of John's discussion is the nature of Jesus Christ as God's Son.  This would obviously be a good time to discuss the nature of the trinity.  It is easily provable that John espouses Trinitarian views more than any other New Testament terms of discussing the subject.  It is obvious that John is concluding the passage discussing Christian duties concerning the focus of faith.
     The use of the phrase "the Word" is very accurate.  In this text God is bearing witness to Jesus as being the Christ. Therefore, not only does God the Father, but the Holy SPirit and the Logos(word)  have recorded that the human Jesus is the Christ.  The human Jesus would not be a credible witness to Himself as the Messiah.  However, the deity of Jesus, which is the Word would be an accurate witness considering the divine mind.  Therefore there are three powerful heavenly witnesses that the human Jesus is is the uniquely begotten Son of God.
   The critical version of this passage does not make sense.  How can blood and water be witnesses when they are not persons?!  They are used as evidences not as individual persons.  Also the text says that God bore witness to the Son states a division between the Son and God.(1 john 5:10).  This division is not needed when we have the Johanine text, sense it explains that all persons of the trinity were bearing witness to the human nature of the Son Jesus.  However with the removal of the comma, the context is destroyed and God is bearing witness to the Son of God who is seemingly a different individual.
1 john 5:[j]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are [k]in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son." NASB    Here God the Father replaces the godhead, and as a result it seems like an Arian testimony.  Since it is God as an individaul referring to another individual Jesus.  yet if we insert the comma it makes sense.
But what is the Witness of God?  Let's look in John's gospel.

john 5: 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
  Now there is talk of two witnesses here.  Jesus has explained that his human testimony would not do. (john 5:31) Yet he has a greater witness. Notice that while the Father is later mentioned he is not directly identitfied as the greater witness.  The witness is also specifically not human.(john 5:34)  the witness which has a masculine connotation was a burning and shining light.  Who in the writings of John is mentioned as light?
John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."
Obviously the Logos(Word) is the Light!  And the Word is the heavenly Witness.  This explains John's use of the Word in 1 John 5:7.
    There are three evidences of Christ used in the 1st century which the persons of the godhead trinity used to authenticate that Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God.  The water refers to Jesus' Baptism which had God the Father personally testify of Jesus' Sonship.  The Blood of Christ which is shed on the cross and and bears witness that Jesus alive later was a resurrection  Finally the Holy Spirit bears witness to the hearts of Men have testifed of His greatness.
    One of the basic issues involving the inclusion of a minority text is internal evidence.
A majority may appear more right than a minority but there is no absolute certainty.  However internal evidence is much more certain assuming that John could coherently write.  Since John was consistent in his other books and we know that He was inspired by the Holy Spirit, it is certain that he must have used the comma and this trumps the argument of manuscript support.  Since it is mor elike that the Apostle was consistent and his verse mostly deleted,than the idea of an inspired man being inconsistent and unintelligible.

    Now there is an endless stream of texts from which people my find to debate on manuscript differences.  But ultimately if He are firm in faith understanding God's inspiration and preservation Then our faith will inevitably lead us to the traditional Bible.

Total deletions 2886 words, this is slightly more words than 1&2 Peter combined. (Gathered from Catherine Carmichael for Pastor Jack Moormon "Modern Bible VErsions the dark secret") 7% of the New Testament has word alterations between the two texts. Also Modern Versions have disagreements with roughly 5% of the OT! So how much f the Bible do you believe?