Thursday, March 30, 2017

You can't take the power out of the blood! response to a fake christian baptist minister.

 responding to the article

"It’s time to end the hands-off attitude to substitionary atonement"

Chuck Queen

Chuck Queen is pastor of Immanuel Baptist Church in Frankfort, Ky., and author of several books, including “Being a Progressive Christian (is not) for Dummies (nor for know-it-alls): An Evolution of Faith.” Chuck blogs at A Fresh Perspective and is a regular contributor to the Unfundamentalist Christians blog.

You know, if you were to impersonate a police officer you would get thrown in jail. But if you impersonate a pastor, then you get published!!

This man has absolutely no right to claim to be Christian. He has a right to call himself a platonist, he has the right to call himself a gnostic, perhaps a new ager or a liberal but nothing here should be confused with Christianity, because that would be libel.

You see the platonists make a district distinction between the physical world and the spiritual world. The spiritual world is good and the physical world is bad. So the God of the old testament is bad because he created the physical world.
The Bible teaches that God created the world good however and that there are spirits like satan who are very evil.

The Platonist/gnostics take their worldview and apply it to scripture. The Bible is the Word of God. Traditionally We believe the words that we physically see are from God. But since we physically see them the platonist believes that they are not the true words of God. There is a spiritual message but it is behind the words and not the words themselves.
So the true message is hidden in the Bible and not the words of the scripture themselves.

So shame on us for believing what the Bible actually teaches!
Jesus saw God as Father!
Yes, Just like Father Abraham who would have to sacrifice His Son.
Of Course God let him off the hook, because Jehovah himsef would provide the sacrifice.

Platonists look Down on the God of the Bible having emotions like wrath. But if we take away God's emotions we take away His love as well.

"Substitutionary atonement imagines a self-giving Son who gives his life in order to pay off/placate/satisfy/appease a harsh, vindictive Father. Even when God’s union with Jesus is emphasized through Trinitarian configurations, the problem is not alleviated. No matter how positively nuanced the exposition, the result is still that God must save us from God."
  Here we see the straw-man of the father being vindictive and harsh.  This is because they deny Creation. understanding the creationisn genesis one aleviates many of the imagined paradoxes from the queen.
A, Because God is sovereign and has ownership of creation.
B. Because God is good and created the earth God.
C. Because God allowed creature-ly freedom of His creation
D. Because God allowed Adam and Even to understand that rebellion was not desireable.
E, Because the Serpent acted in temptation and Adam and Eve had authority over Him.

F.Because God endowed mankind with advanced lives for over a thousand years.
G.  Because God showed mercy to mankind through Noah and His family
H. Because God established a covenant with Abraham for a relationship with mankind and later with Moses to educate mankind about righteousness.

In terms of the Trinity.  The deified nature of Christ did not die.
Psalm 16:
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
   Christ sacrifice was His physical life.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!"
It was His blood that atoned for sin and finished the sacrifice.
John 19:
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Romans 3:
25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

" Proponents of substitutionary atonement explain that God’s holiness or justice demanded a substitute. Why? If God is sovereign, as advocates of substitutionary atonement contend, then God is the source of all justice. God is not subject to some sort of cosmic principle of justice outside of God’s own nature. If God chooses to simply forgive sin the way a loving parent would forgive sin, without requiring some sort of pay off or sacrifice, there is no one to tell God that God is violating the demands of justice. God sets the standards of justice."
luke 4:And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."
Satan follows the queens Method. and yet Christ protest serving another as god.

This brings us back to God's law.
deuteronomy 5: I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 10 and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments."
This is not simply a question seeking answers but a question seeking God's Sovereignty.
 John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
It is not the fault of God or Christ, it is man's love of evil instead of God.

 Substitutionary atonement reflects more of an ancient, primitive view of God than the view taught and embodied by Jesus of Nazareth. In the ancient world, sacrifice was demanded to placate the offended deity; to stay the deity’s wrathful vengeance. Jesus imagined God as Abba — a loving, compassionate parent — seeking the best for God’s children. The God of Jesus would have no need to save us from God’s self.
matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."
Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Matthew 26:
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

The god of the gnostics is a god of confusion, a dishonest god who misleads those who follow him. 2 corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
The gnostics of the New Testament are the new agers and christian theological liberals of today.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

But why would a loving God have a place called Hell? And why would he do violence to himself in the process of salvation?
Romans 3: 10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 and the way of peace have they not known: 18 there is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
john 3: 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "

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