Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Lutheran losses

I. Creedal credit: Lutheranism’s over dependence on the creeds.
Lutheranism decided that the Catholic Church was a true church in need of reform, as a result the flaws of Catholicism have crept in.
Of course this at a slower pace due to the normative principle; which declares that anything which does not contradict the scriptures is allowable. On this basis they have accept history and teaching and traditions. Which were not obviously heretical. However this was philosophy would sow the seeds of destruction.
A.
Martin Luther had already come to understand that the Roman Catholic Church was the Great Whore of Babylon and the Pope to be the Antichrist. He wrote of this in his book “Babylonian Captivity”. Therefore, the Lutheran church was responsible knowing that Roman Catholicism was not the true church and not reliable to us for history, doctrine and traditions. The Roman Catholic Church was inbred with the Roman Empire.
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The Lord shall judge us over traditions that are not rooted in him
Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Therefore we should separate from Roman Catholicism
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
This is the curse we see today in mainline Protestantism, which practices Catholic tradition.
So in making the false assumption that Catholicism was at one time the true church and only in need of reform they accepted and practice liturgies of the creeds.
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

A. Apostles Creed “the holy Catholic church”
B. Nicene Creed “one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church. I acknowledge baptism for the remission of sins;”
C. The Chalcedonian creed “virgin Mary the Mother of God,” “creed of the Holy Fathers has handed down to us”
D. The Athanasian Creed “whosoever will be saved: before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith:” “we are forbidden by the Catholic religion” “and they that have done good shall go into life everlasting: and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith: which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.”
These creeds are obviously the writings of man. But the scriptures are just as obvious the writings of God.
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
These creeds which are recited in the Lutheran churches teach justification by works and baptismal salvation. Also they lead to a mentality that focus on man’s doctrine ignoring the Bible itself.

II. Ubiquity: stretching Jesus too thin!
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
In order to preserve the Catholic mass. The Lutherans have argued a doctrine called ubiquity. Where Jesus’ flesh was God and therefore his flesh was Omni-present. Yet this scripture argues a physical Second Coming.
This view is also heretical in the sense that it leads to deification and pantheism. If Christ flesh/body is everywhere and it is physical then everything is potentially Christ. Therefore Christ would no longer be holy. Secondly we become more of a god. Because we are eating God.


III. What matters most (Lutheranisms “Christ-centered” hermeneutic)
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Luther as well as the Lutherans teaches that there is an inequality in Revelation. Teaching that we are free to ignore sections of the scriptures in favor of the more familiar teachings of Christ.
Centuries later, theologian Karl Barth would capitalize on this doctrine of revelation and swiftly applied it to the doctrine of inspiration. This was so easily accepted because if scripture is not necessary, then it really is not necessary. Why would God be so preoccupied with inspiring things; which are not important?
One major issue of this is that there is no specificity in this doctrine. Which verses are important and which ones are not?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Christ cares for the entirety of scripture. It is all inspired and it is the word of God.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The main reason for this is because Jesus is the Word of God and therefore the Revelation of scripture is Christ.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

IV. Oh what is man that you should be mindful of Him? (Luther’s view of humanity)
“107 Do people still have the image of God?
“No, this image was lost when our first parents disobeyed God and fell into sin. Their will and intellect lost the ability to know and please God. In Christians God has begun to rebuild his image, but only in Heaven will it be fully restored.”
Jam 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Lutheranism has a peculiar view of the spirit. It argues the view of traducianism by which we derive our spirits from our parents as oppose to directly from God. This led Luther to deny that humanity is any longer in the image of God.
Luther and several Calvinists argued that we inherit our souls from our parents. This was in line with their determinist belief system. Scriptures which would be used for support would be.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Psa 17:15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
Now there is no doubt there are some good points the Lutherans make. I would agree that the image of God has been tainted by humanity. However the views of the Lutherans (and many Calvinists) are extreme and become false teachings.
One major difference I would argue from the Lutheran view is that the image of God is initially in us all and it is tainted in our lives personally.
Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
Here we see that infants do not possess the knowledge, which condemned Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Eze 18:1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Each generation is responsible for itself, and therefore it is hard to argue that we have not been created in the image of God.
Mat 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,
Mat 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Here we have a scene where children are capable of pleasing God even though they are ignorant. Our loss of the image is directly from our flesh.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
However, we do have a spirit that has been given to us directly from God.
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
We all have spiritual life that we all lose through sin.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Our similarity to Adam is in our flesh. As we grow in this flesh we grow in our sin. This is why we must become like children, because they originally bore the image of God.
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Could this change the gospel?
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
If man is by definition no longer created in the image of God, then it is argueable that Christ should not be made in the image of God and therefore sinful. Because the incarnation argued that Christ was fully man. Is it any surprise that higher criticism which started in Germany and in whom most of the theologians were raised Lutheran would go on to deny the sinlessness of Christ? Humanity, therefore must still be currently created in the image of God.
This doctrine also has other implications in politics. The early reformers did not believe in the dignity of humanity so they refused the rights of freedom upon people. The state churches even today have a socialistic bent toward them.

V. Baptismal regeneration: The wrong Roman road!
The practice of infant baptism restores the idea of racial election. One is God’s according to his family. After all families baptize their babies and not other families. However this was strictly refuted in the Bible.
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
“Baptize means to apply water by immersing, washing, pouring, and the like”
Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Here washing is baptismos, so they argue that baptism means washing. The literal translation of baptizo is “immersion”. Not sprinkling or pouring. While the context implies washing for baptismos, it is obvious the dishes were immersed in the process. Christian baptism is always performed by immersion.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing
This signifies our death burial and resurrection in Christ.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

248 What precious things are given in Baptism?
It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this as the words and promises of God declare.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Many people use this verse with little understanding. First, most sacramentalist ignore the clause of repentance. Lutherans like Catholics and others baptize babies who are incapable of repentance. Secondly this was the ritual of John’s Baptism.
Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
This was for a basic religious repentance of obvious sins. But jesus was going to do more.
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John’s baptism was for Christian religion but Jesus baptism was for eternal salvation.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This baptism of the Spirit is not limited to the baptized.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Though, it is assumed we should have this blessing prior to our baptism.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


VI. There is no substance like consubstance; like consubstantiation I know!
A. Where is Jesus?
1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
There is no doubt truth in this verse and this verse by itself makes a good case. Yet we must focus our attention upon the whole of scripture.
1Co 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
We see already that this is metaphorical.
1Co 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
Notice the parallel with idolatry. The idol is not anything really but a statue. Therefore the elements of communion are not anything but elements.
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
The negative with idolatry is a relationship with devils. The positive with the Lord’s Supper is fellowship with Christ. We are not eating God, but instead relating to Him.
Fellowship (Easton’s Bible Dictionary)
(1.) With God, consisting in the knowledge of his will (Job
22:21; John 17:3); agreement with his designs (Amos 3:2); mutual
affection (Rom. 8: 38, 39); enjoyment of his presence (Ps. 4:6);
conformity to his image (1 John 2:6; 1:6); and participation of
his felicity (1 John 1:3, 4; Eph. 3:14-21).
(2.) Of saints with one another, in duties (Rom. 12:5; 1 Cor.
12:1; 1 Thess. 5:17, 18); in ordinances (Heb. 10:25; Acts 2:46);
in grace, love, joy, etc. (Mal. 3:16; 2 Cor. 8:4); mutual
interest, spiritual and temporal (Rom. 12:4, 13; Heb. 13:16); in
sufferings (Rom. 15:1, 2; Gal. 6:1, 2; Rom. 12:15; and in glory
(Rev. 7:9).
1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co 10:22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
Another question one must ask is are the devils in the products sacrifice to devils?
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
The context has been established that meats sacrificed to idols were not in themselves idols but prohibited due to symbolism. This is the basis for a Christian principle of morality.
Mar 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

B. How do we receive Jesus?
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
It is not through rituals that we receive Jesus Christ, it is by faith upon the hearing of the gospel. If we have received Jesus Christ into our hearts by faith then why do we need to go back to rituals for more?
C. Salvation with out faith?
292 “Yes, because the Sacrament depends on Christ Word, not upon our faith.”
1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
This verse is used in defense. However, it is assuming that communion truly is sacramental. Otherwise it implies the need for faith and obedience. But what about Christ word as it relates to the sacrament?
D. Does Christ even have blood any longer?
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
How was Thomas able to look into a gaping wound? We would normally see bleeding. Jesus had his blood drained out on the cross.
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
This is common in sacrifice.
Deu 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
Christ blood was left upon the earth.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
According to the gospels Jesus had been sacrificed once and therefore had his blood poured out one time and it has never been brought back. This is a careful distinction of the gospel of the scripture to the gospel presented by sacramentalists.


VII. The invisible church with it’s invisible spirituality!
In Luther we see the principle of the invisible church most strongly pronounced, in fact evangelicalism is most spiritually kin to Lutheranism, more so than any other reformation movement. I have dealt with this subject in other articles.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
The real church of Christ is obvious. It does not need a shallow coat nor is it simply a government of men. It is a spiritual body that animates it's members to be set apart from society by their faith and godly way of life. The emphasis on a mysterious invisible church (not found in scripture) leads the faithful to neglect real churches until they turn apostate.

VIII. Justification by which faith?
A. You got the cutest little baby faith!
“D. Babies also are able to have faith”246. Why are babies to be baptized? Explanation of Luther’s Small Catechism
There are two scriptures in defense of this point.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
This is answered by the fact that the passage is not referring to infants but instead to children who believe.
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
There is a parallel passage in Luke which has infants mentioned but not as infants believing. Jesus specifically says little children in that passage as well.
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Saving faith is the responsibility of an adult.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

B. Most Lutherans follow not in the steps of Luther, but of his apprentice Philip Melancthon concerning freedom of the will. They claim that election is based upon faith and as a result they claim that one can have saving faith and be saved yet fall away from faith and lose their salvation. While orthodox Lutherans still understand Justification by faith, they do not understand that saving faith leads to regeneration which leads to perseverance.
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

C. Many Lutherans have taken an extra step towards liberalism and have followed the footsteps of a Danish Lutheran philosopher Soren Kierkegaard. (founder of existentialism)
The faith of existentialism is the power of imagination to create a fantasy realm for whatever religion you choose, it is blind in the sense that it does not have to answer to reality. Now biblical faith is blind…
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
But is blinded to the opposite... faith is real evidence.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
It does not live by the sight of imagination.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Here we see Paul strictly forbidding man-made religion and man-made faith. If it comes from man, then it is corrupt. The true religion of God did not come from man’s ideas but was sent to us as God’s revelation. We are blind without imagination but live by faith in God.

The loss is great (the sad state of Apostasy in the Lutheran church)
A few years ago a Danish Lutheran church elected an Atheist pastor. Denmark is a state church country and so they felt it would be prejudicial otherwise. Yet the faith is obviously mangled.
At one time Dr. Luther established five principles, which govern reformation Christianity.
Sola Scripture) God’s infallible authority is in Scripture alone.
Sola Christa) Salvation is in Christ alone.
Sola Gratia) Salvation is a gift of God’s grace alone.
Sola Fide) God’s Justification of man is through faith alone.
Sola Gloria Deo) God alone deserves our glory and affection.
Unfortunately, like Lot’s wife the Lutheran church has looked back at Sodom and she is becoming frozen as a pillar of Salt.
As New Testament Christians we must follow the example of Luther in terms of saving faith so long as we reject their example of dead religion. If you are a Lutheran, remember Christ and his teachings it is in him alone that you find true faith and true salvation.

Quotations were from Luther's small Catechism with Explanation.

54 comments:

SonlitKnight said...

So. Do tell. By what authority does Martin Luther become qualified to discern The Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon when both men most responsible for assembling the Biblical canon (Jerome and Augustine) identify it as Jerusalem?

And if the Pope is the anti-Christ, which one of the 237 Popes? For it is written that 666 is the number of A MAN (singular) and Jerome and Augustine identify him as Nero.

You need to study a bit harder, son.

SonlitKnight said...

Hmmm
Let's see. Your entire argument appears to be that the Catholic Church is invalid because Luther's interpretation of Revelation.

Yet, you cannot demonstrate his authority to do so?

I interpret Revelation 13-18 as talking about Jerusalem. Why is my interpretation any less valid than Luther's?

hmmmm?

LOL Sola Scriptura = Sola Balogna

2 Peter 1 20But (G)know this first of all, that (H)no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,
15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

That is why God, in His divine providence, made the Holy Catholic Church the infallible guardian of His truth.

1 Timothy 3:15

SonlitKnight said...

Remember, my brother, hell is FOREVER. Do you really want to trust your salvation to the heretical teachings of lost souls who are already there?

...or to the infallible doctrines of the Holy Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ HIMSELF?

SonlitKnight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Deeper truth, you look like your having a good self conversation there I think I might jump in.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

The first problem is that Jerome and augustine could never have lived and the bible would still be there.
Both had a histry in pagan influence. Augustine was a platonic philosopher and Jerome was a satyrist and sex fiend.
Using neo-platonist and alexandrines as leverage they reinterpretted Bible prophesy.
They were both cronies to the Pope, I think it may have been the same one demasus(sorry f I mispelled)

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Deeper truth you need to ut on a thinking cap, it is obvious that this article wasn't written adressing a crowd of catholics, but a baptist critiquing a lutheran.
The point about using the whore of Babylon argument is to help Lutherans realize that were basically suckers interpretting there faith according to your traditions.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Revelation 17:9 says the whore of babylon sits on seven mountains. jerusalems sits on mount sion.
There are only two big cities that sit on seven mountains. Rio De janeiro and Rome. Peter had called babylon Rome.
daniel spoke of the Roman beast which is nearly identical to the dragon.
Danile says the anti-christ will be with out a woman like the pope. The first horseman f the apocalypse will be espousing pacifism like the Pope.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

If god made the Catholic church you must be confusing Jehovah with the God of this world.The church of the New Testament has suffered a non-stop onsluaght from the great whore and yet the New Testament is still being preserved an despight your best efforts people are still coming to salvation to the glory of God. No we do not need perverts to stop us from having a personal relationship with God.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

"Remember, my brother, hell is FOREVER. Do you really want to trust your salvation to the heretical teachings of lost souls who are already there?"
No, this is why I trust in christ to save me. and not your heretical cohorts.
Ironicly it is your people who really don't understand hell. I 've witnessed to them many times and they disbelieve in hell.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

proverbs 30:5-6 "every word of God is pure: He is a sheild unto them that put trust in Him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

I think we found our liar!

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Jesus started his church in the gospels. But Catholicism claims that Jesus gave it to Peter and that Christ is therefore not the head of the body.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

seriously you need to check out my article seven reasons why Roman CAtholicis can not save a single soul.

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
Deeper truth, you look like your having a good self conversation there I think I might jump in.

February 13, 2009 7:00 PM
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I was wondering how long before you responded with something inane like this. I knew you wouldn't have a substantive response.
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The first problem is that Jerome and augustine could never have lived and the bible would still be there.
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That is an assumption. There certainly isn't any Scriptural support for such an assertion.
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Both had a histry in pagan influence. Augustine was a platonic philosopher and Jerome was a satyrist and sex fiend.
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and David and Paul were both murderers and Matt was a tax collecter and Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.....
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Using neo-platonist and alexandrines as leverage they reinterpretted Bible prophesy.
They were both cronies to the Pope, I think it may have been the same one demasus(sorry f I mispelled)
----------------
It's Damasus...and without him, you would have no Bible. That is a fact, son.

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
Deeper truth you need to ut on a thinking cap, it is obvious that this article wasn't written adressing a crowd of catholics, but a baptist critiquing a lutheran.
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Which is roughly like a dolphin critoqueing a goldfish on how to ride a bike.
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The point about using the whore of Babylon argument is to help Lutherans realize that were basically suckers interpretting there faith according to your traditions.
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An empty argument because it is based solely on your misguided interpretations-which you won't even attempt to prove authoritative.

All of your argumentsa are silly, juvenile and circular.

"It is because it is because it is..."

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
If god made the Catholic church you must be confusing Jehovah with the God of this world.The church of the New Testament has suffered a non-stop onsluaght from the great whore and yet the New Testament is still being preserved an despight your best efforts people are still coming to salvation to the glory of God. No we do not need perverts to stop us from having a personal relationship with God.

February 13, 2009 7:24 PM
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*Yawn*
Let's see... The Bible or the Church?
Which one did Jesus and the Apostles speak of?

Let's go to the New Testament, ok?

Citations referring to The Bible= 0
Citations referring to the Church= 109

Oh wait..the Church not only gave us the Bible, the gave us the WORD Bible. So, by calling it a Bible, you are maintaining CATHOLIC TRADITION.

LOL

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
proverbs 30:5-6 "every word of God is pure: He is a sheild unto them that put trust in Him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"

February 13, 2009 7:33 PM
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Ok. Then at least be TRUE to your interpretation and rip out every book written after Proverbs.

LOL

Silly man

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
I think we found our liar!

February 13, 2009 7:34 PM

Matthew 7
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
Jesus started his church in the gospels. But Catholicism claims that Jesus gave it to Peter and that Christ is therefore not the head of the body.

February 13, 2009 7:37 PM

-----------------
Continue setting up strawmen to avoid a real substanitive debate.

Matthew 16:18-20 makes it VERY clear that Jesus built the Church on the Rock of Peter (Kephas) but that in no wise nullifies Jesus Lordship any more than Moses, David or Solomon did.

In fact, by rejecting the Church JESUS formed, you testify against YOURSELF.

Luke 10:10

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SonlitKnight said...

Pastor Matt Singleton said...
Revelation 17:9 says the whore of babylon sits on seven mountains. jerusalems sits on mount sion.
There are only two big cities that sit on seven mountains. Rio De janeiro and Rome. Peter had called babylon Rome.
daniel spoke of the Roman beast which is nearly identical to the dragon.
Danile says the anti-christ will be with out a woman like the pope. The first horseman f the apocalypse will be espousing pacifism like the Pope.

February 13, 2009 7:20 PM
------------------

Oooops

Silly fundie
But strange as it may seem, the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an eighth century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify. If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One], the middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], the highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), then the "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five] and then to the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six]. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion." This makes "Seven Hills" in all.

http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm

Once again, you open mouth before engaging brain.

SonlitKnight said...
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SonlitKnight said...

seriously you need to check out my article seven reasons why Roman CAtholicis can not save a single soul.
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Is it the same hypocritical, vitriolic and uninformed polemics you seem to engage in?

no thanks.

Prove your credentials first.

Jesus gave Peter the keys...
Didn't say anything about giving them to you...

SonlitKnight said...

Matthew 5:19-21 (New International Version)
19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

-----------------
Seems pretty clear to me....

SonlitKnight said...

Repent and be converted.
Outside the Church there is no salvation.

You have yet a chance of escaping the flame. I pray that you will take it.

SonlitKnight said...

btw...Vatican City is across the river and sits on it's own- eighth- hill. So, as with everything else, you are wrong.

I have never once met a fundamentalist baptist who could hold his own in a religious debate.

You were one of the easier ones.

You have now been shown the truth. The rest is up to you.

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Pastor Matt Singleton said...

All right,

This blog is on the topic of the Lutheran religion. I am not going to deface my work by starting up a petty RCC debate stream.
Deepr truth I am pretty certain you either are or are partners with "a newt one" specifically because of your weird choices of words and taunts.
I have deleted the following post because they are mindless taunts with nothing of value.
If you would like to comment on this debate then you should respond to my article 7 reasons why Roman Catholicism can not save a single soul. The fact that you refuse to shows everyone your obvious cowardess.
But what is more striking is your concistent taunting.
The APostle Paul speaks of "railers" and "revilers" (1Corinthians 5:10, 6:10) as people worthy of Chruch discipline and unfit to enter the Kingdom of God.
He also speaks of sins of the flesh as "quarreling" "rivalry" "stryfe"
While fruits of the spirit include "gentleness" and "meekness"
It occurs to me that you are not bearing witness to having the Holy Spirit.
Now I may have been caught up into your trap of bickering, but I can not stay there. This blog is for growth in the mind and spirit in search of objective truth. If you really want to be mature then we can move on from there.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

1. The Bible was prophesied by Peter to endure with the New Testament church.
1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 Peter 1:23-25 KJV

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Therefore, God preserved His word regardless of Augustine or Jerome.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Don't try to pull me in with Damasus He was instrumental with your pertverted Latin Bible not the Textus receptus or Masoretic text.
This fellow assumed the temple priesthood of Rome but Jesus never authorized this kind of Activity. He loves all mankind and will never be represented by the early catholic murderers. Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:18-20 KJV


4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:4 KJV

The arguements concerning the "bible" are rather ludicrous. Sure the name "Bible" is not used.(because it wasn't in complete form) But the word of God is constantly referred to.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

What is funny is where is ther word "Catholic" in Scripture?
Or Roman Catholic?
Where is the word sacred tradition found.
The only traditions referred to are the ones recorded in Acts and the gospels.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

"Ok. Then at least be TRUE to your interpretation and rip out every book written after Proverbs"

This is ludicrous because I never argued that proverbs was the last book.But what is the Roman Catholic interpretation? You did not give it. I wonder why???

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

It is ironic that you argue that only a natural man may save or condemn the souls of mankind, and yet I am the one who is being judgemental.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

"Matthew 16:18-20 makes it VERY clear that Jesus built the Church on the Rock of Peter (Kephas) but that in no wise nullifies Jesus Lordship any more than Moses, David or Solomon did."
Sounds good if you can't read Greek. Peter means a small stone. John 1:41 not the foundational Rock. Reading the easy context it is obvious that Christ was referring to the confession of Christ as "the Son of the living God".






"In fact, by rejecting the Church JESUS formed, you testify against YOURSELF." back at ya'

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

I'll do some geography home work and comment later.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Prove your credentials first.

Jesus gave Peter the keys...
Didn't say anything about giving them to you...

I just wished you would actually listen to what Peter Wrote in the Bible!
5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1 Peter 5:1-4 KJV

Like all born again believers in Christ I have a specially anointing to discern the Word of God.

2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:20-22 KJV

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

It is ironic that you speak of flame. Your religion claims to be able to condemn then changes it's mind and calls most people separated brethren and keeps everyone in purgatory. But while all this is going on don't you ever wonder why you are so sure they can condemn when There is absolutley no assurance that you will be saved?

Only Jesus can save.
once again if you want to keep going go onto the catholic article.

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