Monday, February 22, 2010

The original waldensian confession

"Waldensian Confessions of Faith
(Reproduced from Jone's Church History)

Waldenses Confession of 1120
1. We believe and firmly maintain all that is contained in the twelve articles of the symbol, commonly called the apostles' creed, and we regard as heretical whatever is inconsistent with the said twelve articles.

2. We believe that there is one God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We acknowledge for sacred canonical scriptures the books of the Holy Bible. (Here follows the title of each, exactly conformable to our received canon, but which it is deemed, on that account, quite unnecessary to particularize.)

4. The books above-mentioned teach us: That there is one GOD, almighty, unbounded in wisdom, and infinite in goodness, and who, in His goodness, has made all things. For He created Adam after His own image and likeness. But through the enmity of the Devil, and his own disobedience, Adam fell, sin entered into the world, and we became transgressors in and by Adam.

5. That Christ had been promised to the fathers who received the law, to the end that, knowing their sin by the law, and their unrighteousness and insufficiency, they might desire the coming of Christ to make satisfaction for their sins, and to accomplish the law by Himself.

6. That at the time appointed of the Father, Christ was born - a time when iniquity everywhere abounded, to make it manifest that it was not for the sake of any good in ourselves, for all were sinners, but that He, who is true, might display His grace and mercy towards us.

7. That Christ is our life, and truth, and peace, and righteousness - our shepherd and advocate, our sacrifice and priest, who died for the salvation of all who should believe, and rose again for their justification.

8. And we also firmly believe, that there is no other mediator, or advocate with God the Father, but Jesus Christ. And as to the Virgin Mary, she was holy, humble, and full of grace; and this we also believe concerning all other saints, namely, that they are waiting in heaven for the resurrection of their bodies at the day of judgment.

9. We also believe, that, after this life, there are but two places - one for those that are saved, the other for the damned, which [two] we call paradise and hell, wholly denying that imaginary purgatory of Antichrist, invented in opposition to the truth.

10. Moreover, we have ever regarded all the inventions of men [in the affairs of religion] as an unspeakable abomination before God; such as the festival days and vigils of saints, and what is called holy-water, the abstaining from flesh on certain days, and such like things, but above all, the masses.

11. We hold in abhorrence all human inventions, as proceeding from Antichrist, which produce distress (Alluding probably to the voluntary penances and mortification imposed by the Catholics on themselves), and are prejudicial to the liberty of the mind.

12 We consider the Sacraments as signs of holy things, or as the visible emblems of invisible blessings. We regard it as proper and even necessary that believers use these symbols or visible forms when it can be done. Notwithstanding which, we maintain that believers may be saved without these signs, when they have neither place nor opportunity of observing them.

13. We acknowledge no sacraments [as of divine appointment] but baptism and the Lord's supper.

14. We honour the secular powers, with subjection, obedience, promptitude, and payment. "


Roman Catholics have constantly argued that the ideas of protestantism were never heard of in church history. This is an outright lie. There have been generations of believers free from the papacy who held allegiance to the scriptures and believed doctrines like justifcation by grace through faith alone in every century. As you read this document ask yourselves. Does this document sound protestant. Catholics claim that this group was heretical in that they believe in two Gods. Is that what this confession states? Should the roman church be trusted because they slaughtered all their competition in the inquisition?

By the way, admitting that confessions are indeed human documents with imperfection. this confession does a fine job of conveying the infallible truths of the gospel and I subscribe to it.
In Christ,
Matt

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

Nice fabrications, well at least it's not entirely true. A real source shows that they used the apocryphal books. Landmarkism FAIL.

Anonymous said...

Forgot to mention that the date of 1120 is fabricated too, as there were no Waldensians before 1160.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

I wonder why these are anonymous?

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

"Nice fabrications, well at least it's not entirely true. A real source shows that they used the apocryphal books. Landmarkism FAIL."
Your source was copy written 1989.
My source (William Jones 1832) is a hundred and fifty years older.
In college I had an american history professor who said "I don't buy may updated text books because history doesn't change!"

btw, this is not "landmarkism" thisis history.
deal with it!

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

I encourage people to get the complete and exhaustive story.
google.
"History of the Christian Church"
William Jones (1832)

This book is over 600pages but is ready and available.

Anonymous said...

It's not history, it's pseudohistory. 1832, 1989... it doesn't matter if you don't have the source material to back it up. So where are Jones' sources? Since he's citing a source produced by a sect that supposedly predates the birth of the sect's founder, he has a pretty high bar to hurdle in the evidence category.

Maybe you need to read McGoldrick's Baptist Successionism...

Now, after reading that, did you miss the part where they confess "We believe one Church, Catholic, Holy, Apostolic, and Immaculate, apart from which no one can be saved, and in the sacraments therein administered through the invisible and incomprehensible power of the Holy Spirit..."?

Also, read A.H. Newman's A History of Anti-Pedobaptism from the Rise of Pedobaptism to A.D. 1609, where he concludes that "[it] must be admitted that Waldo and his early followers had more in common with modern Methodists than modern Baptists and more in common with Roman Catholicism than with any evangelical party" (emphasis added).

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Dear anonymous I hope you appreciate the next 2 articles. One day you may realize(maybe not admit) the existence of the waldensees. Then you will also in your heart realize that you must answer the question proposed by cain.
4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper?

As far as william Jones. I have recently misplaced my copy. Yet he sites his sources in the text. you can google.
"A history of the Christian church by william Jones."
There's also a long subtitle talking about the emphases of the account of the albigensees and waldensians.

I think you can read it on amazon.

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

yes
books.google.com

it will show you the manuscript and if you scroll down to table of contents you can click on the chapter that you would like to read.

Anonymous said...

Try this: [http://books.google.com/books?id=a3HZ6qu9ze8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=melia+waldenses&source=bl&ots=JUkRFvCw1q&sig=KpbcY2FOG0IvrIWT23Y7QcjwCSo&hl=en&ei=M5KVS56cLo_8sgPBwqmpBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false Melia refutes Leger and Morland]. Jones' source is Morland and Morland depends on Leger, who was a deceiver. Read McGoldrick. Successionism FAIL.

Anonymous said...

Maybe this works: Melia refutes Leger and Morland

Anonymous said...

page 52

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

Starting to read mcgoldrick.He has a very confusing interpretation of the monatnist to say the least.
He tries to label tertulian a catholic and montanist as charismatic catholics.
This all took place just a hundred years after christ!
Roman Catholicism didn't exist!
the first pope was not until the fourth century.
Everyone was practicing believers baptism. It was a church that was growing catholic and tertullian was separating from a worldly church. But the church had yet to become apostate.
mcgoldrick FAIL

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

In his discussion on the novations he never quotes the novations.
Though he admits that they were trinitarian.
He admits that they descended from tertullian.
He argues that they held that a person can not sin after baptism. But he does not nottice that this idea always results in adult baptism.
He admits that the novations emphasized a true church, refused to worship idols,

Pastor Matt Singleton said...

And were separate from both the RCC and the EOC.
Though as usual he quotes from roman catholic Eusebius and never quotes from them.
You might as well quote Jewish history from a nazi author