I have thought about this for a while.
Essentially in my theological journey I have always been a loner. Thought not necessarily by choice. Even in ministry I had not one particular mentor but several. And while I appreciate the lives of these ministers I assumed I would get a little more attention. I think now looking back they indeed had appropriate relationships in the fact that that they did not constrain my to their ideas and philosophy, but instead encouraged me to grow as an individual to get my instructions directly from God.
In the same way as a theologian I was a loner. I started out in a Christian liberal arts college.(this is where I felt the call from God to become a minsiter) While there I took my first OT and NT survey courses. I would also take my first missionary trip to Northern Ireland. It dawned on me that I would have many different groups and religions who would want me to preach there version of the gospel. I knew that if I was going to minister to people and tell people about this Jesus who saved my soul, then I needed to know His Word. Growing up I had read select verses, the book of Matthew, Job and Ecclesiastes. The rest I knew from listening to Sermons. While on my missionary trip, I notticed the devotion of my fellow missionaries and realized that I need to fully understand the scriptures to keep myself from bias. And so I read non-stop for about 5 months and completed the Bible the day before my first day of Bible COllege.
Obviously, I would go on to leave this christian college for Bible college where I got my bacheloreate.
I was trained in theology from a new eveangelical reformed calvinistic baptist perspective. I was thank for a lot fo my training specifically regard the fundamental foundational teachings of the faith. However, as time grew on I knew that I could not fit into their camp. I wished I could just for sake of relieving social preassure yet as I read the scriptures I found that there were some key scriptures that Calvinist would ignore and I could not ignore my Savior's words.
While training at this college I realized that I needed to be free from bias so I would study other denomenations. Some I paid more attention to. Yet I was constatly in search of different perspectives. Not only did I study, but I took the time to vist about 17 different denominations of churches. I also collected over 30 translations of the Bible.
After bible college I became a youth minister. I also study at theologically moderate southern baptist institution for my masters degree. While there an ironic thing happened. Instead, as some would think, of growing more liberal with the liberal teaching I was getting, I grew much more conservative.
I was committed to a sovereign God who had inspired an infallible Bible. Therefore I was able to investigate what made my colleagues reject the word of God. Soon I found the new evangelical compromises that have been plaguing our churches and was able to focus on scripture to illuminate a truly New Testament Faith.
Now in terms of fitting into a camp and recommended reading.
I have found authors and books which had a great deal to offer me. These are not an exhaustive list. I am writing what simply comes to mind.
I do not see these writers as instructing me on anything. The Bible is my soul authority and God deserves all the glory. Instead these writers are brothers who have shared there labors and with whom I find comradery.
They seem to have a grasp on the same spirit which made me born-again. When they read the scriptures it reminds me of when I read the scriptures. If these men fail, I forgive them. I am never betrayed by them since I never place my faith in them. I only have faith in God. So without further adew,
recommend authors
Henry Morris) I believe that when we are in Heaven, Dr. Morris will be vindicated as the most valiant defender of the faith among the more popular apologist in the 20th century. Unlike C.S. Lewis He did not restrict himself by arguing for "mere Christianity". Instead Morris defended Biblical Christianity letter for letter! It was Morris who first helped us to understand that evolution was both unscientific and unbiblical. Giving scientific evidence for the flood and defend the Bible in literally every academic arena, Morris laid down the guantlet for today's less than worthy apologist.
Keith Green) Though a musician, Keith Green had a spark that flipped today's worldly evangelicals on their heads! Not only was music biblical and inspiring. But as you read Keith's Biography "no compromise" you find someone who is both down to earth and yet has their eys toward heaven. You will rarely if ever read of someone with such living faith.
Richard Baxter) While I am not sure of all of Baxters theological conclusions(I do not know of his views on baptist and the church). Baxter si one of the great devotional nonconformist/puritans of his generation. A pastor who had converted his entire town with only two exeptions! a must read "The Saints' everlasting Rest"
Dave Reagan) Dave Reagan is one of the most practical prophecy speakers I know of. He makes the study of Bible prophecy simple and sound. IF you are new to studying the end-times he is the man to go. Although I must warn about two teachings which I do not endorse. First Reagan believes in apostasy while teach "eternal security". Secondy Reagan belives in a temporary Hell. That there is a spiritual prison until the final judgement and the lost while only be annihilate in the lake of Fire not burning forever. this is an understandable but false teaching. Yet other than this Reagan is a very effective minister for the gospel of Christ.
Dave Hunt) Hunt is one of the leading thinkers in the evangelical community when it comes to understanding cults as well as the occult. IF you think that your church maybe getting wtered down by the world. Read Hunt and He will unveal exactly what is going on.
Alberto Rivera) If Hunt were a hammer then Rivera is a Jack Hammer! Reading the Alberto Rivera series literally tipped my world upside down. I kept thinking this is to extreme! Yet fact after fact was confirmed by historical research. If people think the "davinci code" was thrilling, then i have one thing to say. "truth is stranger than fiction"!! The series has to be factual for one simple reason. It is so fantastic a story that there should have already been a movie made about it. only NWO forces would be responsible for not bringing this out to the public.
John R. Rice)In my studies a lot of my theology is summed up by combining landmark and disensation theology to New Testament interpretation. Rice was already ahead of me. I never got the priveledge of meeting Rice. But if he is anything like his writings it must have been something to see.
W.A. Criswell)Criswell is a decent scholar and preacher. I found him to be valuabel early in my education. Unfortunately he does have a few flaws. He was pro-chice and a member of the free-masons. But if you can get past these issues He is a good resource.
recommended books
"refuting Compromise" Jonathon Sarfati
Sarfati is a brilliant creation scientist. His writings help me accept God's word concerning a young earth creation.
David Sorenson "touch not the unclean thing" this was a key book in bringing me over to a traditional text position.
David Larson "Jews Gentiles and the Church" this book help me to secure the foundational understanding of God's plan for Israel in the end-times.
"progressive dispensationalism" william craig.
This is a good book for understanding dispensationalism. Ultimately I feel there qare strengths and weakness to ultradispensationalist, classic dispensationalist as well as progressive dispensationalist.
there are many others I will bring up later.
God bless,
In Christ,
BRo. Matt Singleton
Tuesday, January 5, 2010
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115 comments:
Your status as loner is a Cartesian morass that you're not likely to get out of easily. It's an inherently skeptical outlook, one that you're attempting to overcome by "getting [your] instructions directly from God." But, by doing so, you're claiming apostolic/prophetic status for yourself. I could continue on with the various implications, but what benefit is there to further elaborate on the details of epistemic quagmire?
Apples and Oranges!!
Apostolic and prophetic authority are claims that God has personal given revelation to me exclusivley that the rest of the world is bound to follow.
I claim that as a born-again christian I have been given the humility to read God's word and then understand it (known as illumination).
The Bible gives me and all believers this ability.
2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1 John 2:20-21
Unbelievers can understand the scripture, so long as their is a moral call to over come their own presuppositions and place faith in Christ.
The problem with a catholic epistemology is that you claim theological illiteracy.
If you are so illiterate, then how do you know that the pope (or whatever apostolic bishopric that you subcribe to)really is able to read the Bible for themselves?
Maybe you are misinterpreting their authority and their was another interpretor? How can you the who have been curse with the theolgical bandana?
10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]:) 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:1-17
There is no doubt that I and other conservatives struggle with being isolation. Yet to have the one relationship with God is superior
than the freindship with all the world.
Romans 11:2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel: 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
1 john 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
In Christ,
Matt
Once again, the redneck bald face lies about Catholics.
No one is surprised. No one will be surprised when he is damned to hell for his never ending false witness.
"theological illiteracy"
LOL
I can state FOR A FACT that I understand the Scriptures INFINITELY better than Ku Klux Klan boy....
not that that is a real high bar to clear....
I'm not sure why you think I'm Catholic — I'm not. I notice you didn't quote the scriptures that declare that you must be taught. Being taught means you must have a teacher: a human teacher. None of the passages you cite support the idea of loners. In order to be a part of the "faithful remnant" you must first be taught by a faithful teacher. But you are skeptical even of the teachers you most often agree with. Further, the only means you have to determine if you are being taught by a faithful teacher is your own opinion, which means you're really just your own teacher.
"I can state FOR A FACT that I understand the Scriptures INFINITELY better than Ku Klux Klan boy....
not that that is a real high bar to clear...."
DT,
Here are some scriptures that you apparently do not understand.
3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Colossians 3:8
5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Ephesians 5:4
3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] and bitter? 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so [can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
James 3:8-12
"あじ
I'm not sure why you think I'm Catholic — I'm not. I notice you didn't quote the scriptures that declare that you must be taught. "
Interesting point,
Only you have not quoted those scriptures either.
"Being taught means you must have a teacher: a human teacher. None of the passages you cite support the idea of loners."
I am not saying I never had a human teacher I have had many. I have gone to Bible College. I got my masters degree at a Christian liberal arts college. I will put my church attendance record going back to 1993 against anybody.
I just wrote in this article that I had 3 mentors during my ministry.
" In order to be a part of the "faithful remnant" you must first be taught by a faithful teacher. But you are skeptical even of the teachers you most often agree with. "
If you are not skeptical of a human teacher then you will ultimately be in a cult. People are sinners and they need to be tested when they teach.
23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Matthew 23:5-8
"Further, the only means you have to determine if you are being taught by a faithful teacher is your own opinion, which means you're really just your own teacher."
The ultimate standard of truth is the written word fo God. The Holy Spirit has given me an unction or illumination along with every other born-again saint.
So that if I am a hard working disciple and not influence by other philosophies or the flesh. Then I may obtain the truth which God wants me to know.
30:10 if thou shalt obey the voice of Jehovah thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law; if thou turn unto Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul. 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deuteronomy 30:10-14
あじ
What is your belief system?
I notticed that you like a book I liked. Progressive dispensationalism.
But also remember that many of the prophets had felt loneliness, even Christ. Christianity should be a welcoming family. But it is not based upon club affiliation.
Klan man... physician, heal thyself.
Your understanding of scripture is sophomoric at best. You certainly don't understand even basic concepts like ''faith'' ''grace'' and ''justification''.
Even the most moderatly informed catholic would eat you alive...
certainly, I have
By the way, how can you recommend any book other than the Bible?
So much for Sola Scriptura, eh hillbilly?
LOL
I've always said that there isn't a fundieprod in the world that truly believes in the heretical doctrine of sola scriptura....
he just proved me right.
"Your understanding of scripture is sophomoric at best."
If it is not your position to interpret the scriptures then who are you to judge?
"Even the most moderatly informed catholic would eat you alive...
certainly, I have"
Wow... that is really gay!! But sorry I don't recall any of this you must be referring to someone else.
"By the way, how can you recommend any book other than the Bible?
So much for Sola Scriptura, eh hillbilly?"
One of these days you will have to try reading my articles.
"I have found authors and books which had a great deal to offer me. These are not an exhaustive list. I am writing what simply comes to mind.
I do not see these writers as instructing me on anything. The Bible is my soul authority and God deserves all the glory. Instead these writers are brothers who have shared there labors and with whom I find comradery."
and...
"When they read the scriptures it reminds me of when I read the scriptures. If these men fail, I forgive them. I am never betrayed by them since I never place my faith in them. I only have faith in God."
This is a rather clear statement no man made teaching is of divine authority except what is written or implied in scripture. These books and authors were seen as simply the most in tune teachers of scripture. I was very clear on how these men were subject to judgement as あじ criticized me for.
You can't go on being so contrdictory, your are torturing readers who are trying to possiibly make since out of you bumbling.
The word is "sense", not "since", you idiot. Contrary to your babble, the readers see that it is you- not me- who is all over the theology map.
I have read your articls and hear is a summation;
* extremley sloppy logic
* an amazing lack of knowledge of the scriptures.
*incomprehensible arrogance and willful dishonesty.
* abberent, even heretical, views of even the most basic theology.
* a complete unwillingness to research anything outside your protective bubble.
Those are the facts and few that come here would dispute them.
The reason I did not quote those scriptures is because I assume that you have read them and are capable and sufficiently intelligent to search for them. It would be fairly time-consuming to provide a complete exegesis of all of them, so I decided not to get into it at all.
I am aware that you have had teachers, however it is also obvious that you are quite skeptical of them. Would you also be skeptical if you were listening to one of the apostles? You seem to believe that even an apostle could lead you into a cult. You keep comparing yourself to prophets, but you insist that you're not claiming to be a prophet. I find this fascinating.
I like the book Progressive Dispensationalism because I think the authors are actually willing to deal with the complexity of the evidence. I think most dispensationalists ignore the very real flaws with their presuppositions and their hermeneutical commitments. While I tend to prefer to say what I do not believe (a very ancient tradition, now being rediscovered by the Postmoderns and Emergents), a good summary for you to examine would be the unaltered Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381.
"The word is "sense", not "since", you idiot. Contrary to your babble, the readers see that it is you- not me- who is all over the theology map.
I have read your articls and hear is a summation;"
"articls"?
The fact is that you are a cheap shot artist. You have nothing to provide. If I discuss anything outside of catholicism you turn into a mute. Because you can't think outside your programming.
Yu want to judge me yet you forget that your opinion has never earned any respect. You are smply proof that I am on to something. If you hate it then it is more likely to be right andnot wrong.
"あじ said...
The reason I did not quote those scriptures is because I assume that you have read them and are capable and sufficiently intelligent to search for them. It would be fairly time-consuming to provide a complete exegesis of all of them, so I decided not to get into it at all."
If you claim scriptural authority it is custumary that you would quote the scripture. The Bible is a big book even a ref( like John 3:16) would do.
I need to know what your referring to other wise I could dimiss you as a liar.
There are many scriptres that may talk about teaching. But I am not making the claim, You are. So it is your duty to set forth your case. I can't waste my time tryin to figure out if I have a flaw just because you "feel" like I do. If this were so no preacher,teacher or Bible study
leader could ever speak because they would never have an audience that is always in 100% agreement with them.
So please challenge me again with scripture in a matter that I may provide an answer or simply be corrected.
"I am aware that you have had teachers, however it is also obvious that you are quite skeptical of them. Would you also be skeptical if you were listening to one of the apostles? You seem to believe that even an apostle could lead you into a cult. You keep comparing yourself to prophets, but you insist that you're not claiming to be a prophet. I find this fascinating."
My freind although you are certainly intelligent. You honestly do not seem to not understand the fundamentals of the faith.
Here is thelogical sequence.
God knows everything
man is flawed
prophets and apostle were given the perfect message from God. and with the power of the holy spirit it was preserved in writing.
Teachers of the Bible are flawed men. They may be right and they may be wrong.
I have read the writing of some of the most famous teachers of the Bible in history.(various protestants and catholics.) I observe things that I agree and disagree with.
In the writings of scripture, I here the word of God. The holy SPirit speaks to e and I can sense that. Whenever I have a conflict witht the scripture. I have found that I am the one who is wrong, not God.
Now concering your beliefs. If you do not submit Yourself to the authority of Jehovah then it doesn't matter what you believe whether Nicene or the Koran or the communist manifesto. Because it is all opinion.
Speaking of Nicene. From the document it is apparent that you wouldbelieve in baptism ad good works for salvation.
If this is true I want to tell you something sincerely.
we are all sinners in need of salvation. We are so corrupt that we could never obtain salvation.
Rituals and good works could never cover all the evil that you have done in your life.
God knows your evil. He knows the people that you have hurt. He knows the many times you have blasphemed him. Yet He loves you and has let his only begotten Son. To be brutally slaughtered for you.
So that you may obtain salvation. By trusting in Him and Him alone.
God is a jealous God and so is Christ. How could you possibly believe that you may follow another lord instead of Christ.
Christ is the head of his congregation. We must never follow another lord whether they be catholic or protestant.
If I am correct about this I mean this sincerely because I want yu to be sure of salvation and see you in Heaven one day.
Here are some examples of scripture that demonstrate the importance of receiving teaching, and they contradict the idea that one should be primarily (or entirely) self-taught. None of these passages support the idea that the truth of the bible is primarily to be grasped by exegesis, or that (valid) teachers should be viewed with extreme suspicion.
The pattern is apostolic teaching:
Acts 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
We are not all teachers, so why must we all be self-taught in order to avoid ending up in a cult?
1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
There is a difference between exegesis and "handing-over" (receiving/accepting):
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
There is a clear difference between one who teaches and one who is taught:
Galatians 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
To learn Christ, you must hear and be taught. This verse is strange because it seems to imply that you learn and hear, it is as if He Himself is the one teaching:
Ephesians 4:20-21 But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Hmm... Still no self-teaching going on here:
Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
We can be taught verbally and by reading. Certainly private study and learning is not ruled out here, but this also seems to be as much about doing (praxis) as about doctrinal propositions:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Not the one who exegetes the best, but the one who is faithful to what he receives is the good example. Here is the bad example, one who stops following what he received:
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
Genealogy matters. Four generations of teachers (Paul, Timothy, faithful men, others):
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard [been taught] of me among many witnesses, the same commit [teach] thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Only those who have been taught should be appointed as elders:
Titus 1:5,9 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee... Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Your "theological sequence" is human reasoning: why should I trust it? Where did you get it from? I suggest you consider the verses I listed, because they don't fit your sequence properly. Your view is a very strong skepticism which does not match up with these scriptures.
Now, what on earth does the Nicene Creed have to say about "works salvation?" I can't find that part. And when the creed says "baptism for the remission [forgiveness] of sins" it is simply quoting scripture (Acts 2:38). The fact is, the creed is one of the most widely agreed upon statements of doctrine in history. Minus the addition of the filioque, which is not universally accepted, it has remained unchanged for over 1600 years. That many years of scrutiny far outweigh my abilities and intelligence to challenge.
"The pattern is apostolic teaching:
Acts 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
We are not all teachers, so why must we all be self-taught in order to avoid ending up in a cult?
1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?"
First you are speaking of a time before the New Testament canon was complete. Paul was teaching due to apostolic authority after he had first recieved a vision of Christ which was confirmed by Ananias and Later by the Apostles including Peter.
Secondly, when you say "self-taught" it sounds as if you are denying the power of God to work on the individual.
The New Testament proclaims that the gospel has the ability to save.
Romans 1:16" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith"
I can understand a new believer depending on the views of their pastor. However, if that PAstor fails to teach their pupil how to read the word of God they have shown proof that they are incapable teachers.
They don'necessarily have to argue with their teachers but if they read the Bible they ought to have an independant view of it. They should be able to to say for instance I believe the trinity because the bible says..."
"There is a difference between exegesis and "handing-over" (receiving/accepting):"
I think a key issue you have is that you do not believe That God is involved in our education. That If a Bible is available He can not speak through it even though it is His very words.
"1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 Peter 1:23-25"
God used a man to print the Bible But He still needs another man to make his own intrerpretation to another man?
1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 Peter 1:23-25
nottice man is fallible, corruptible and will whither like grass. Yet the gospel will endure for ever as the basis for our salvation.
"Only those who have been taught should be appointed as elders:"
But it takes more than knowledge. It takes the an annointing from the Holy Spirit.
"6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Acts 6:3"
1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
2 Timothy 1:6-7
"Genealogy matters. Four generations of teachers"
It is not the geneology which is important it is the faith which needs to be apostolic.
"1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
1 Timothy 1:3-4"
John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:17
Now don't get me wrong. It is normative for the gospel to travel from teacher to student. But the Bible is the complete gospel and it is all you really need to know.
"Now, what on earth does the Nicene Creed have to say about "works salvation?" I can't find that part. And when the creed says "baptism for the remission [forgiveness] of sins" it is simply quoting scripture (Acts 2:38). The fact is, the creed is one of the most widely agreed upon statements of doctrine in history. Minus the addition of the filioque, which is not universally accepted, it has remained unchanged for over 1600 years. That many years of scrutiny far outweigh my abilities and intelligence to challenge."
The Baptism statement does lead to where I was going.
I was however confused with the Athanasian creed.
“whosoever will be saved: before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith:” “we are forbidden by the Catholic religion” “and they that have done good shall go into life everlasting: and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith: which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.”
So apologies for that.
I agree with the trinity and the "et filioque" clause.
However, sub statements regarding the catholic church I do not believe in.
The very idea of an openly pagan emperor(constantine) deciding to order christians around concerning there faith is quite frankly ridiculous. I am not compelled to follow the creed based on his authority. Nor am I willing to sacrifice the rest of scripture i order to show my allegiance.
22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:2
"Your "theological sequence" is human reasoning: why should I trust it? Where did you get it from? I suggest you consider the verses I listed, because they don't fit your sequence properly. Your view is a very strong skepticism which does not match up with these scriptures."
Honestly, I do not see any scriptures that contradict what I am saying.
147:5 Great [is] our Lord, and of great power: his understanding [is] infinite.
Psalms 147:5
3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10-12
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3
3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:1-5
It seems to line up bibnlicaly to me.
Again you're applying human reasoning to the scriptures. Why should I accept human reasoning? Paul assumed that Timothy would teach people who would teach others: there is no evidence that the completion of the New Testament means there is no ongoing need for teachers. Paul's uniqueness is in his apostleship and his anointing, not his place as a teacher. How is it that God uses people to copy and print bibles (and even to teach children literacy) yet does not use people to teach the meaning of scripture?
Nothing I said denies that God is involved in our education. But your position in essence denies that humans are involved in education. This is a form of Docetism. The New Testament does not give us a picture of people coming to understand the Gospel or the essentials of the Faith by means of exegesis. It does show us teachers and the Holy Spirit both at work, because both are necessary. Without these two elements, private interpretation is unavoidable. "How shall they hear [the word] without a teacher?"
The authority of the Creed is not in any way dependent upon an emperor. Most of the wording of the creed can be dated to the 2nd century or earlier. The only thing really new in the creed is the specific use and meaning of ὁμοούσιος. The consubstantiality of the Father and Son is a critical portion Trinitarian doctrine, hence the importation of homoousios. The creed does not sacrifice any portion of scripture whatsoever, though it may challenge the private interpretations of some.
あじ said
"Nothing I said denies that God is involved in our education. But your position in essence denies that humans are involved in education. This is a form of Docetism. The New Testament does not give us a picture of people coming to understand the Gospel or the essentials of the Faith by means of exegesis. It does show us teachers and the Holy Spirit both at work, because both are necessary."
dear あじ
your building a scare crow argument. I would not write an article recommending authors if I though no one is capable of teaching.
Yet my contention is that teachers are neither inspired nor infallible. They may have revelation from God. yet unless they quote scripture they are capable of error.
This standard I apply to myself. I am fallible but I have infallible revelation from the Bible. Perhaps the Holy Spirit may give me information from the Lord as spiritual gift. still I am fallible enought to screw it up and need the accountability of the scriptures or someone with the scriptures.
"The authority of the Creed is not in any way dependent upon an emperor. Most of the wording of the creed can be dated to the 2nd century or earlier. The only thing really new in the creed is the specific use and meaning of ὁμοούσιος. The consubstantiality of the Father and Son is a critical portion Trinitarian doctrine, hence the importation of homoousios. The creed does not sacrifice any portion of scripture whatsoever, though it may challenge the private interpretations of some."
The problem is that you have divided (along with others)and made classifications in the word of God.
The nature of the nicene creed went beyond religious orthodxy into law and therefore legalism.
It was set up as an excuse to persecute and sometimes kill christians and non-christians alike who would not support the empire on a specific level.
The issues of homoouisios I agree with. Yet there are not major portions of the scripture devoted to them. So why are they sucha standard of orthodoxy? So they can justify persecution. I have seen calvinists argue the same way with predestination.
It is a format whereby people can abuse religious authority.
We have to use the Bible as our sole model of conduct and not let man made documents become a new Bible.
Now I don't mean to say that a confessions should be banished. But we should be careful that they be our profession of faith and not a weapon to condemn others with.
あじ said
I d want to tell you I appreciate dialogue with you.
Unlike Deeper Truth you have conducted yourself with class and encourage you in critiquing other articles.
In Christ,
Matt
Stop being a baby. You are embarrassing yourself.
So tell me Klan boy...
If you "screw it up" and the Bible catches you, how does the Bible put you back in your place?
It can't....it's a book. Books don't walk or talk.
Outside the Catholic church, there is no salvation.
Fundies like Matt worship the Bible as an idol. The Bible, of itself, is nothing but a book. It is of no value whatsoever without an infallible church to authenticate and interpret it.
The Bible is ink on paper.
Book worshipper
Jesus is not a book, Matt.
He is alive.
Stop your book worship and become a genuine Christian. The Bible is very useful but it was never intended to be worshipped like you do.
"So tell me Klan boy...
If you "screw it up" and the Bible catches you, how does the Bible put you back in your place?
It can't....it's a book. Books don't walk or talk.
Outside the Catholic church, there is no salvation."
By the word of the Lord God created every thing.
"45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 45:22-23"
There is no salvation outside Christ. There is no salvtation outside Christ. there is no confirm saint alive today, according to the catholic church.
"Fundies like Matt worship the Bible as an idol. The Bible, of itself, is nothing but a book. It is of no value whatsoever without an infallible church to authenticate and interpret it."
Catholics like DT worship statues of Italians posing as Mary.
The Bible is not dead. nor is it "just a book" it is the living word of God.
1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1:24 For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1 Peter 1:23-25
"3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:15-16
The ide of the church as infallibile is both ludicrous and unbiblical.
If the church were infallible then Jesus wouldn't have to correct the asian churches in revelation, nor would Paul correct the followers of james, the apostle Peter, and the church at corinth.
The Rcc is fallible by nature and constatnly find skeletons in their closets on a daily basis.
speaking of Idolatry, why did Pope clement erect an idol to the Sea God Neptune and why has it never been taken down?
Matt
You didn't answer my question. How does a BOOK set you straight?
"Catholics like DT worship statues of Italians posing as Mary."
Actually, we do not even worship the REAL Mary. You have never been able to substantiate this garbage and you never will.
"The Bible is not dead. nor is it "just a book" it is the living word of God."
You have just confessed to idolotry! What more needs to be said!
CHRIST is the living Word of God. The Bible is a book.
THe Bible is NOT the Word of God, the Bible is a RECORD of the Word of God. It is a Testament of and to the Word of God but it is not the Word of God itself.
You have fashioned for yourself, an idol made of leather, paper and ink!
Christ lives in THE CHURCH!
ACTS 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood
Without the Church, the Bible is worthless. For the Power to record, translate and interpret the scriptures was given to....AND ONLY TO The Roman Catholic Church.
Stop worshipping a book, idol worshipper! Worship Christ!
Isn't it ironic? This frothing Ku Klux Klan member has accused me falsely (that's a sin, you know) of worshipping everything from Mary to the Pope to- now- Michaelangelo's Pieta.
Yet, when the chips are down, he admits that he holds a book in his hands, created by human hands, and calls it GOD!
BLASPHEMY!
The Bible is a Sacred book...the MOST Sacred book..... but only a CRACKPOT would call it the living God!
Matt is insane and a blasphemer.
straight up.
Just one further question...
If your Bible is God, why do you need books by Dave Hunt (rabid moron) and Keith Greene (rabid moron burning in hell)?
The ide of the church as infallibile is both ludicrous and unbiblical.
If the church were infallible then Jesus wouldn't have to correct the asian churches in revelation, nor would Paul correct the followers of james, the apostle Peter, and the church at corinth.
That you have given those examples, once again displays your abject ignorance of basic theology.
You claim to have a degree and yet you dont even understand the difference between infallibility and impeccability?
You need to stop worshipping a book and learn about God.
"speaking of Idolatry, why did Pope clement erect an idol to the Sea God Neptune and why has it never been taken down?"
Trying to dissuade from your book worship with another lie, Klan Boy?
One can only assume so, since you provide no credible source and you fail to identify WHICH Pope Clement (There were 14 of them).
You know that all you can do is lie because all the truth is on my Church's side and you are a son of the devil- the father of lies.
by the way, you STILL have not produced a single verse of scripture supporting Sola Scriptura. Now, you must also produce one showing that the Bible is God.
Klan boy got quiet. Either he is offering up a holocaust to his bible or burning a cross...
lol
redneck idiot.
and by the way, the Pope you lied about is Clement XII. and if you had any intellect, you'd know that Rome is not under the jurisdiction of the Vatican.
In fact, it isn't even on the same side of the Tiber river...
So, nice try.
And Papal Infallibility is ABSOLUTELY Biblical.
NONE of the tripe you believe is
Duet 17:12 * Any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to the priest who officiates there in the ministry of the LORD, your God, or to the judge, shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
You still, invariably, subject your teachers to your own understanding of scripture. The problem is, you have no recourse other than your own opinion if you disagree with your teachers. If a teacher tells you to accept every word of the Nicene Creed, or to reject some part of it, you have no criteria by which to evaluate whether they should be believed. This is why I mentioned genealogy in relation to teachers, because it is a biblical criteria that for many reaches its terminus at John Calvin or Martin Luther, or perhaps Jan Hus. Such a terminus is profoundly unbiblical.
The Creed has nothing in itself to justify or perpetuate persecution. What it does, however, is set boundaries for biblical interpretation, ruling out various forms of Arianism, Adoptionism, and so forth. If it really existed for insidious purposes, I would expect to see some significant theological error in it, but unless one is anti-Trinitarian the arguments against it are reduced almost to quibbling. All manner of good things may be used for evil, so a sustainable argument against the Creed must be other than what you've presented.
Hey Bible Schmuck,
Where did you go?
lol
"You have fashioned for yourself, an idol made of leather, paper and ink!"
Actually the verses that I have quote here came from the internet which is made of none of these things.
It is uplifting to watch you embarass yourself. But please I will feel guilty for your stupidity later. So try to grow a brain.
"You have just confessed to idolotry! What more needs to be said!
CHRIST is the living Word of God. The Bible is a book.
THe Bible is NOT the Word of God, the Bible is a RECORD of the Word of God. It is a Testament of and to the Word of God but it is not the Word of God itself."
Sometimes I fantasize and wonder if you spend your time in some secret dungeon as a grand inquisiter. I can see you right now putting on your black robe...
Seriously when you judge me end up making a court case in Heaven as to why you ought to be cast in to the fires of Hell. Now don't get me wrong it is not because you have attack me. But it is because you blaspheme God and his Holy Word. You really don't take christ that seriously.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:18-20
3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:16
22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
The Bible is the Word of God.
When I say the Bible I mean the revelation or message of the scriptures are the word of God.
I went over this concept in my article discussing the catholic Christ but you probably were too busy with your brilliant name calling routine that you forgot to read.
"One can only assume so, since you provide no credible source and you fail to identify WHICH Pope Clement (There were 14 of them)."
It was the pope in the mid 1700's.
It is the famous Trevi Fountain in Vatican city.
They had a lot of scenes depicting it in the movie version of Angels and Demons.
[now since you are known for barking over petty details. the movie uses a set model of vatican city. However a model intended to be identical that the vatican relunctantly agreed with.]
"Christ lives in THE CHURCH!
ACTS 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood"
OOOHHHHHHH! caught ya!
Christ physically is in Heaven. You claim he is physically here on earth proving my prior charge that Catholicism implicitly denies the humanity of Christ. And also identifies you with the spirit of the anti-christ which denies that Christ came in flesh.(1John 4:1-3)
I think I smell sulfur (sniff sniff)I don't smell it here. that must be you!
Now, you must also produce one showing that the Bible is God.
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
"Deeper Truth said...
Duet 17:12 * Any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to the priest who officiates there in the ministry of the LORD, your God, or to the judge, shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst."
This refers to Old Testament Israel. You think it refers to the Catholic Church?
Then you would agree that it is then your duty to murder me?
"You still, invariably, subject your teachers to your own understanding of scripture. The problem is, you have no recourse other than your own opinion if you disagree with your teachers. If a teacher tells you to accept every word of the Nicene Creed, or to reject some part of it, you have no criteria by which to evaluate whether they should be believed. "
How much time have you spent with the scripture? It is not that mysterious.
I read the Bible. I listen to teachers like the ones mention in the article. If their explanation conforms with the scriptures I agree to it. If I find more insight were theteachers doctrine stops conforming to the scriptures I stop listening to them at that point.
If Dt, teaches that Jesus is God and I find that in the Bible, then I gree with him. Same thing if he believes in the right to life.
Once we start talking about the Bible or salvation I find him to be wrong and reject his systems on these teachings.
I try to believe what the Bible is telling me and reject what the Bible does not tell me. In the last ten years I have become accustumed to church history and the creeds. When they are right, they are right. But when they are wrong I do not want to continue in there sin.
I am extremely patriotic about America. I try to be a constitutionalist. But that does not mean I will agree with slavory, or tricking the Indians out of land. Because I recognize the fallibility of my teachers.
If your teachers are infallible then why did christ need to die on the cross?
あじ said "The Creed has nothing in itself to justify or perpetuate persecution. What it does, however, is set boundaries for biblical interpretation, ruling out various forms of Arianism, Adoptionism, and so forth. If it really existed for insidious purposes, I would expect to see some significant theological error in it, but unless one is anti-Trinitarian the arguments against it are reduced almost to quibbling. All manner of good things may be used for evil, so a sustainable argument against the Creed must be other than what you've presented."
The largest problem with creedlism is not what it says, but what it does not say.
For instance. Should there have been a creed stating that Christians would not murder pagans since they were often doing that?
There is a Bible which has these rules in it.
did you need the creed to believe in the trinity or did you know it from the scripture?
Does the authority of God come from His words or clergymen?
In Christ,
Matt
Now, you must also produce one showing that the Bible is God.
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1
1:14 And the Word became FLESH
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father's only Son,
full of grace and truth.
Flesh...not paper...idiot
OOOHHHHHHH! caught ya!
Christ physically is in Heaven. You claim he is physically here on earth proving my prior charge that Catholicism implicitly denies the humanity of Christ. And also identifies you with the spirit of the anti-christ which denies that Christ came in flesh.(1John 4:1-3)
Christ is Omnipresent. Your lack of basic theology ASTOUNDS me. No where, in any Catholic teaching, is the humanity of Christ denied. In fact, it is celebrated because the death of the HUMAN Christ is depicted on the crucifix.
Yet, His humanity doesn't contradict His Divinity. They are united.
You can't even think straight. I have never met someone so stupid in my entire life.
You have been humiliated once again, klan boy.
"Deeper Truth said...
Duet 17:12 * Any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to the priest who officiates there in the ministry of the LORD, your God, or to the judge, shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst."
This refers to Old Testament Israel. You think it refers to the Catholic Church?
You aren't bright enough to comment on what I think because the level of my thinking is at least 100 IQ points higher than yours.
This verse refers to THE PRIESTHOOD which was established under the Old Covenant and renewed under the new, thus fulfilling the words that the Priestly offering would be PERPETUAL.
EX 40:15 As you have anointed their father, anoint them also as my priests. Thus, by being anointed, shall they receive a perpetual priesthood throughout all future generations."
MAL 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of host
One Sacrifice, but a PERPETUAL OFFERING.
So, you lose. Hell awaits you, you godless freak.
Matt is too stupid to understand that the Church HAD no Bible for the first almost 400 years of it's existence.
Besides, the Bible is CRYSTAL clear that the Catholic Church is the one and only authority authorized to speak for God.
That is why the church gave us the Bible and not the other way around.
Revelation 5:10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on earth."
This is God's verdict. The Catholic Church- and ONLY the Catholic Church- is Christ's ordained path to salvation.
It's amazing. All through the Scriptures we hear about a royal Priesthood that reigns on earth. We hear NOTHING about everyone getting their own personal Jesus and a book to worship.
NOTHING..... not one syllable.
You fundie idiots made it up out of thin air.
Show me the scripture that says I am supposed to worship the Bible, idolator.
Yes, the Bible is a RECORDING of the Word of God but it is not the Word of God ITSELF.
That recording of the Word of God is written by men, translated by men, typeset by men, bound by men and interpreted by men.
Which men? Only those with the proper authority. ONLY the Catholic Church.
Oh, I forgot to tell you...
"Perpetual" means "never ending". The Priesthood, starting with the Levitical Priests is NEVER ending.
The offering is NEVER ending.
I just invalidated your whole silly apostate religiousity, chump
Let's see... 100% of the evidence supports Catholicism, 0% of the evidence supports fundieprodism yet you cling to it with such blind devotion. When you are sentenced to hell, you will have no excuse.
I do truly want to thank you. The truly stupid and juvenile arguments you make can only help convert more people the the only true Christian faith which you and I both know is Roman Catholicism.
"Christ is Omnipresent. Your lack of basic theology ASTOUNDS me. No where, in any Catholic teaching, is the humanity of Christ denied. In fact, it is celebrated because the death of the HUMAN Christ is depicted on the crucifix."
Christ is spiritually omnipresent. If Christ were physically omnipresent then that would be the heresy of Pantheism. Yet you have committed heresies; so why stop now?
"This verse refers to THE PRIESTHOOD which was established under the Old Covenant and renewed under the new, thus fulfilling the words that the Priestly offering would be PERPETUAL.
EX 40:15 As you have anointed their father, anoint them also as my priests. Thus, by being anointed, shall they receive a perpetual priesthood throughout all future generations."
MAL 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of host
One Sacrifice, but a PERPETUAL OFFERING.
So, you lose. Hell awaits you, you godless freak."
Talk about a bad pokerface. I call your bluf and raise you the epistle of Hebrews.
7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. 7:4 Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]: 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 7:26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Don't forget it also teaches that there is
Hebrews "10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 10:15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; "
Take the garbage to a theological wastedump for the biblically illiterate. Can't find a place? I know your blog!!!!!!!!!
Pastor Matt Singleton said...
"Christ is Omnipresent. Your lack of basic theology ASTOUNDS me. No where, in any Catholic teaching, is the humanity of Christ denied. In fact, it is celebrated because the death of the HUMAN Christ is depicted on the crucifix."
Christ is spiritually omnipresent. If Christ were physically omnipresent then that would be the heresy of Pantheism. Yet you have committed heresies; so why stop now?
Christ does not exist in slices, Matt. Do you know what the hypostatic union is? Christ's humanity is inseperable from His Divinity.
Therefore, Omniprescence and bilocation is no big trick for Him.
Blogger Pastor Matt Singleton said...
"This verse refers to THE PRIESTHOOD which was established under the Old Covenant and renewed under the new, thus fulfilling the words that the Priestly offering would be PERPETUAL.
EX 40:15 As you have anointed their father, anoint them also as my priests. Thus, by being anointed, shall they receive a perpetual priesthood throughout all future generations."
MAL 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of host
One Sacrifice, but a PERPETUAL OFFERING.
So, you lose. Hell awaits you, you godless freak."
Talk about a bad pokerface. I call your bluf and raise you the epistle of Hebrews.
Sorry, the Epistle of Hebrews does not counter my claims.
So you lose...as always.
"1:14 And the Word became FLESH
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father's only Son,
full of grace and truth.
Flesh...not paper...idiot"
So you believe that the second person of the trinity is not a spiritual person but a physical body.
I believe in both monophysite.
The Greek Calls Jesus and the scripture the word of God. The Word is both.
Hey moron,
Hebrews is referring to the Old Testament Priests and the Sacrifice of animals. It was replaced by the perfect sacrifice of Christ.
That says NOTHING about the OFFERING, which your OWN BIBLE says is offered PERPETUALLY by the Priests.
You are mentally challenged, I know but even one with a microscopic IQ such as yours should be able to see the difference between the SACRIFICE and THE OFFERING.
You have been pwnd again klan boy
you are completly refute DT.
Chris is has the priesthood in the order of MElchisedek.
The levites have no authority outside israel.
Your insistence on Catholic priest as levites shows you to be nothing more than a pharisee.
You bit off more than you can chew the Bible clearly teaches Jesus made one offering for sins. it also teaches that the levitical priest were ineffective.
Even if you could should that your pagan religion somehow had that Priesthood the epistle of the hebrews teaches that their offerings can not atone for sin. look at chapter 10 again right there on the screen.
You worship a book. I worship Christ.
The end.
"That says NOTHING about the OFFERING, which your OWN BIBLE says is offered PERPETUALLY by the Priests."
Hebrews "10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
you have been proven to be a true hypocrite there it is. you are a liar. So keep on putting all your graffitti on the screen everybody knows that you are a hypocrite
You lost. Your man-made religion has been completly refuted. Say hi to Luther in hell
I am going to leave now, sorry Dt, but i have a life.
1COR 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
1COR 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons.
1COR 11:25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
1COR 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
1COR 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
1COR 11:28 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
The Bible says you are a liar...I agree with it.
Checkmate, you lose
Pastor Matt Singleton said...
I am going to leave now, sorry Dt, but i have a life.
January 29, 2010 1:21 PM
By all means, go and do some more "odd jobs" instead of getting a real job and doing something useful...you lazy slob.
I know you are running because you got your theological butt kicked again. You know, I know.
coward
And you keep commenting that I "Think" this or I "Think" that. You are mistaken. I don't THINK any of this... I KNOW it. I belong to an infallible church and I haven't even the slightest shred of doubt in my correctness.
You will NEVER have that peace. You are lost so you will always be guessing. LOL
You are soooooooooo far in over your head. It's comical, really.
There must be a lot of lead in that Kentucky water.
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahahaha
By the way, odd job boy, get a job!
Worth an encore....
1COR 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
1COR 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and also the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of demons.
1COR 11:25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
1COR 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
1COR 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
1COR 11:28 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
you lose....BIG
Every word of your Bible points to the Roman Catholic Church as the ONE and ONLY Church of Christ.
Turn or burn, heretic.
It's just that simple...
Are you still getting over resigning your congregation that consisted of jim bob, joe bob and billy bob?
lol
"If your teachers are infallible then why did christ need to die on the cross?"
This is a complete non sequitur and misrepresents what I've been saying. Salvation does not come by knowledge but by faith. An infallible book is not necessary for salvation.
The creed has no need to mention murder because it's already mentioned in Exodus 20:13 and further amended in Matthew 5:22. Creeds don't replace the scripture, and I wasn't arguing that they do or should. This discussion is going in circles. I appeal to scripture and you appeal to the Spirit. I appeal to creeds produced by teachers and you appeal to scripture. The only infallibility for you is your own understanding of scripture.
I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion. It's just not going anywhere.
あじ that was a brilliant argument. Unfortunatly, it will be lost on Matthew. He embraces his ignorance.
"If your teachers are infallible then why did christ need to die on the cross?"
Matthew, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you ask such a fundamentally stupid question?
Infallibility has nothing to do with being sinless. That is ''impeccability''. Didn't you learn that at butcher holler seminary?
あじ said...
"If your teachers are infallible then why did christ need to die on the cross?"
This is a complete non sequitur and misrepresents what I've been saying. Salvation does not come by knowledge but by faith. "
But there is some knowledge involved like Jesus for instance.
"An infallible book is not necessary for salvation."
Nothing can be necessary if it might not be true. Jesus can not be truly the Son of God if his message may cease to exist. Jesus can not be the truth if he is not omniscient.
The creed has no need to mention murder because it's already mentioned in Exodus 20:13 and further amended in Matthew 5:22. Creeds don't replace the scripture, and I wasn't arguing that they do or should. This discussion is going in circles. I appeal to scripture and you appeal to the Spirit. I appeal to creeds produced by teachers and you appeal to scripture. The only infallibility for you is your own understanding of scripture.
I'm going to have to bow out of this discussion. It's just not going anywhere."
It takes two people to commnicate. I really think you just wanted to spout off. give me a break.
look at your own blog.
"Brief illustrations of systematic theology. I consider all systematic theologies to be heretical to varying degrees, so this is both an exercise in systematic theology and a refusal to fully accept systematics."
YOu consider all theologies heretical to varying degrees????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
And you want to waste my time aguing with me because I believe it is ok to critique theological teachers?
Talk about going no where. You if you want people to take you seriously then you shouldn't be rude. I don't need to waste my time like this. I am trying to be a service to you.
Matt
Do you have a job Dt?
Blogger Pastor Matt Singleton said...
Do you have a job Dt?
January 30, 2010 12:54 PM
A job with responsibilities you couldn't handle with a salary a dead beat like you could never hope to make.
You have to have a brain to do my job. You have to be willing to do an honest day's work. You have to be a man.
In other words, you don't qualify.
notice the little puke ran from my quotes from Paul's letters to the Corinthians that absolutely prove the Catholic position that the Eucharist is nothing less than the- Christ ordained- offering of His sacrifice.
For a so-called "Bible Christin", Matt runs from the scriptures more than anyone I have ever seen.
Klan boy hates this one;
RV 5:10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on earth."
"David Larson "Jews Gentiles and the Church" this book help me to secure the foundational understanding of God's plan for Israel in the end-times."
LOL
You understand it so well that you are already cheerleading for the Jewish antichrist
What happen? You run away again like the coward you are?
Why are you so afraid of a little debate? Try being a man for once, you might like it.
"Your understanding of scripture is sophomoric at best."
If it is not your position to interpret the scriptures then who are you to judge?
"Even the most moderatly informed catholic would eat you alive...
certainly, I have"
Wow... that is really gay!! But sorry I don't recall any of this you must be referring to someone else.
<<< Now I ask you... would a "man of the cloth" make such a vulgar and disgusting implication? Thanks for demonstrating -again- your incredible godlessness and hypocrisy. Of course, you make such an assertion behind the safety of your monitor because you know if you did it to my face, I'd bust you in the mouth.
Nevertheless, you know I have won on every issue. Every single one. Heck, on 3/4 of them, you are even too much of a coward to even respond.
You know it, I know it.>>>>
and as for your assertion that it is not my place to interpret the scriptures you are wrong. I just have to stay within the parameters of revealed truth.
Unlike you baptists cultists who inject any manner of heresey that fits your mood.
and, since I belong to an infallible church, my interpretations will always be 100% correct and free from error.
Unlike yours that are 100% incorrect and free from truth.
Where you at? You picking up sticks in the neighbor's yard for $10 a day?
lol
Gotta keep doing those odd jobs. You wouldn't want to make six figures like me, ya know...
lmao
looks like the big pussy ran away again...
oh well....
Why are you hiding, fag?
notice Matt does not deny that he is a faggot
It's like this folks.
If you want GENUINE, BIBLICAL, HISTORICAL Christianity that goes all the way back to Jesus Christ, Himself, you have to become a Catholic.
If you want a heretical, man-made imitation barely 500 years old, listen to Matt.
If you want a religion faithful to 100% of the Scriptures, Roman Catholicism is for you. If you want a religion based on about 15% of the Scriptures, twisted and wrenched from their proper context, follow Matt.
As anyone can see, Matt is not capable of holding his own in a theological discussion.
All he knows are the sound bytes he has gleaned from retards like Dave Hunt.
He is not capable of taking theological constructs apart to truly examine them.
"hates this one;
RV 5:10 You made them a kingdom and priests for our God, and they will reign on earth."
while I wish you had a accurate version of the scriptures I love the Word of God so much that I learned how interpret it according to the context!
5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 5:8-10"
Last time I check the RCC didn't have four living creautres nor the throne of the lamb! This is clearly speaking of the kingdom of heaven preparing to take over in the millenial reign of Christ.
try this out on people who don't know the Bible!
"You understand it so well that you are already cheerleading for the Jewish antichrist"
"Jewish"? You may call me clan-boy but your the grand wizard!
Besides the real high priest is not some jewish anti-christ. The real high Priest is not the Pope either! My High Priest is Christ!!
4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
Hebrews 4:14
"If your Bible is God, why do you need books by Dave Hunt (rabid moron) and Keith Greene (rabid moron burning in hell)?"
I didn't need these men to have faith. These men like many brothers provide fellowship and experience in the word. While Keith Green confessed salvation by God's Grace through faith. There is no way you ever have the kind of impact and ministry and charity that this man had. But He doesn't need me to protect his memory because He has the almighty God on his side.
"Hey moron,
notice the little puke
coward
looks like the big pussy ran away again...
Why are you hiding, fag?
It's like this folks.
If you want GENUINE, BIBLICAL, HISTORICAL Christianity that goes all the way back to Jesus Christ, Himself, you have to become a Catholic."
DT
DT actually uses this language as a witness to claim that He is a holy saint who is in faith earning his salvation through this language. Is this the way Christ wants his disciples to behave?
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:22
3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] and bitter?
James 3:10-11
I'll admit that I have not passed the trials that DT brings me with an A+. Yet you never see DT have any remorse for his on going verbal abuse. Does DT possess the true gospel and holiness? Can his fountain produce both sweet and bitter water?
So long as I humble myself, the Lord Jesus informs me that i am blessed.
5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:11
So DT, I do not have a clue how to reach you. I just try to show you the truth. But I am hoping that one day the hardness of your heart will crack and you will realize what the Lord can really do inn your life when you let him be yur Lord instead of religious substitutes.
Do you understand that you guilt can be removed with out a game of make believe?
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