AtheistI expected to see a defense of the ontological argument in this video, but I'm not even sure what I heard.Matt Singletonfirst you should watch this video https://youtu.be/AcVJobux8Xc I am responding to this video. Now I did make some remarks about Anselm as I have been studying his proslogion. So then I debunk dillahunty's attack. Now here is my ontological argument.
AtheistMatt Singleton Yes, I've seen this video, but I refute the OA in my own ways.
AtheistIf you want me to critique your video, I would say that the main problem that it suffers from is that you spend a lot of time criticizing atheists for not supplying a definition of God. When Dillahunty and others refute belief in God, they are using the definition supplied by the proponent. And in the case of the ontological argument, the supplied definition is one of the primary focuses of the rebuttal.Matt Singleton Atheist I am sorry but I really don't take you seriously here. "the supplied definition" You yourself are evading defining God, they are evading defining God because God by definition has to exist. God is all powerful, a myth is not all powerful. God is eternal, a myth is not eternal God is all knowing, a myth is not all-knowing God is omnipresent, a myth is not omni present. Since I know what God is, then God is not impossible. Since a myth is opposed to every attribute of God then God is not a myth. Now if you want me to work it out further then simply look at the video. https://youtu.be/PHVxURns5WU
Atheist:Matt Singleton I am not evading defining God. I just don't see why you would want me to. Your whole approach to the MOA requires you to control the definition of God. If you are willing to relinquish that control, I will happily define God right now: God is a singular, intelligent super-being with the ability to manifest ideas into physical reality, who may or may not exist.
So, I have done what you want, I defined God, you accept my definition, and case closed, right?Matt SingletonThere is a reason people use the term Judeo-Christian. Because there are many "gods". Ex. 20 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
NOW IF YOU HAD WATCHED MY VIDEO I EXPLAINED EXPLICITLY HOW ANSELM PREFACED HIS ARGUMENT WITH GOD'S CREATION OF ADAM AND EVE. This was not grounded as a blank slate theory. God is a historical fact. Historically observed and his essential properties are essential properties observed.
your definition "God is a singular, intelligent super-being with the ability to manifest ideas into physical reality, who may or may not exist." Can be said of Satan and the fallen angels. jude :6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. " (also see job 1) Satan is not God and God is not Satan.
Your definition is a straw man.
The essence of logic is "a" can not equal "not a" and your rebuttal is utterly illogical.Simeon TesseractI did in fact watch your video. I just had a hard time following it because you tend to meander.
If you don't like my definition of God, for the reasons you stated, that's fine, I can fix it right now by adding that he must be benevolent, and that his existence must preclude that of all other beings. I'm very flexible on the definition of God. I just have one sticking point, which is that the definition cannot include that he exists. If definitions could mandate a being's existence, we could define into existence any fantastical creature.Matt Singleton Atheist, God does not "exist" He is "necessarily existent". You have a god who is pagan. The pagan concept of a god is imminent inside space and time. The true God of scripture is transcendent. He is beyond space and time. You are asking for a godless accidental universe with a space alien named "god". Jehovah is the Great I am. In fact, I am that I am. He is the ultimate source of himself and the ultimate source of everything. Everything that exist is contingent and has an explanation. But what is the explanation of that? Answer :that which is necessary. Otherwise we have no proof of cause and effect and science no longer "works". You will be stuck asking how the big bang made laws of science, or asking how time evolved. There is by implication the necessity of the 1st cause fulfilled by GOD who exists necessarily. And nothing else exists necessarily it is either contingent or fictitious.
Atheist: Matt Singleton I don't actually have any god at all, since I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any pagan gods, and I don't believe in a space alien god. What I do believe is that beliefs should be justified, and I’m not seeing any justifications for your claims. The ontological argument is an utter failure.
I don’t deny that there are some deep mysteries in the universe. But the fact is, there are some things we don’t know and might never know. But our lack of knowledge should not be grounds for making assumptions about reality. I’m sure you are familiar with the argument from ignorance fallacy.Matt Singleton Atheist: "I don't actually have any god at all, since I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any pagan gods," The problem is that you are conceiving of pagan god's and then straw manning the God of Scripture as one. You don't debunk sound logic with a fallacy. Providing a false definition of God is erecting the strawman of another God. God must be transcendent as an implication of that which is infinite. God in his necessary attributes is infinite.
"What I do believe is that beliefs should be justified" Then the burden of proof is on you to justify why beliefs should be justified, because at this point you are operating from circular logic.
"I’m not seeing any justifications for your claims" A; Because you are blind. over and over you have as an act of will refuse to observe God by his given definition. once again. "God is all powerful, a myth is not all powerful. God is eternal, a myth is not eternal God is all knowing, a myth is not all-knowing God is omnipresent, a myth is not omni present." you claim you were no evading this but then..
"God is a singular, intelligent super-being with the ability to manifest ideas into physical reality, " You erected a strawman regardless.
B. You are the evidence for God that you are looking for! You fail to deal with the ontological argument rationally. You are incapable of dealing with that definition because you know that y that definition God exists. The logic is there in your bran! why is it there? let's say it is the product of evolution. Then your brain conceived of God ad existing and that is a product of naure. That the best way to adapt to our world is to believe in God or at minimum to understand that as logical. Your will is opposed to this and yet you have failed to find a way out, aside from making a straw man.
"But our lack of knowledge should not be grounds for making assumptions about reality. I’m sure you are familiar with the argument from ignorance fallacy." therefore since you have no evidence that there is no God and you are ignorant of faith in God you should not conclude that there is no God.
Now I debunked this in the video. Anselm did not make his ontological argument void of context. people wrongly isolate it from the prayer. The prayer starts with observations of God in history. Thus God is observed by several persons in creation. They had audible conversations with him. First in the garden of Eden, Then Cain and Abel, and later Enoch and Noah and Abraham and so on and so forth. He is a spirit unique to the other spirits (angels and demons) and his definition is unique to other nations "gods". This goes on with hundreds of witnesses for thousands of years. Thus the ontological argument begins from historic experience and then is rationalized by definition. The fact that this is put into a prayer debunks a burden of proof. Your subjective rejection of God has no compulsion for me to defend God as much as you are not forced by my me to believe. The truth of God's existence is not effected by your rejection. You are at liberty to reject God however, you are responsible to seek God. The burden is not upon me to prove to you that God exists. The burden is upon you to seek God because if God is real you are subject to His government and this time you have not been subject your life to his authority and thus are subject to eternal consequences. When you reject God and hold that himself not existing is true or that his existing is invalid. You are assuming that a knowledge which is greater than the knowledge you possess has inabled you to make such a decision. That knowledge is internal since externally the world around you does not have the complexity of the brain. Thus you are seeking spiritual knowledge as opposed to materialist science. If you are correct then your worldview is wrong. Because you have stumbled upon intelligent design. God in our minds and logical minds at that, makes God possible, then by definition is not impossible and God by definition is not a myth. Therefore God exists. JUST CRUNCH THE NUMBERS! AdmnMatt Singleton QUOTE: "since you have no evidence that there is no God and you are ignorant of faith in God you should not conclude that there is no God."
We do not use the word "ignorant." We say that someone is lacking knowledge or something similar. Atheist: Admin Thanks for the defense, though I don't take offense from being called ignorant. We are all ignorant of many things. It's just part of the human condition.
Atheist: Matt Singleton Whenever I challenge someone on the ontological argument, I get hit with every other argument instead. This tells me that, at the least, the OA is exceedingly popular among those who don't really understand it. If you can't debate the OA, and you want to debate one of the numerous other points you brought up, I would be happy to.Matt Singleton atheist You are not being honest. You have never accepted the basic definition of monotheism. You want to argue against deism or Panentheism then maybe you should not argue with theist or assert atheism. There is no way a myth can be all powerful, or omniscient, or eternal or immutable or omnipresent or omnibenevolent. Sense I and anybody who takes a course in theology available in most universities understands this and are even grade upon understanding this. it is not impossible and it is not a myth so, yes God is real. Admin: Atheist, I am an administrator of the group and is my goal do you have more effective communication that is Christlike. Ignorant is a synonym of stupid and comes across as discourteous and rude. Yes, it also means one lacks knowledge but it has the other connotations too and so I would ask that people use the extra words to say one lacks knowledge.Matt Singleton Admin, You should notice the context. it is uncharitable to impugn another Christians character. How is that a witness? 1 Peter 5:3 neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock."Atheist: Admin, I definitely appreciate your efforts in this group. You have made yourself noticeably present in a group that deserves and can benefit from even-handed moderation. Atheist:Matt Singleton I am not being dishonest, and I am never dishonest when debating, so I don't appreciate that accusation. As I've said over and over, when debating a theist, I accept the theist's definition of God, and work from there. But you seem to refuse to allow that, and insist that I use a different definition, then accuse me of being dishonest for not using the theist definition!
Matt SingletonIf you accept the basic definition of God. then you have been committing a straw man. God is eternal. God is all powerful God is all knowing God is omnipresent This is the God that you claim to deny.
If you commit a strawman you are intentionally manipulating the truth which is also fallacious. I can't help that you are repeatedly trying to argue against a god that I don't represent. Maybe you should just deny that god and admit that that god is not the one of scripture.
AtheistMatt Singleton To accept a definition for something is not tantamount to agreeing that such thing exists. We can agree about what a unicorn is, but that doesn't mean it exists. Nothing can exist purely by definition, which is the point I've been trying to make. How could I possibly be committing a straw man if I'm agreeing to work with the definition of God, that is provided by you? Matt SingletonA unicorn is a rhino as it was understood until the 1800's and it exists as one horned in asia to this very day.
God is eternal. God is all powerful God is all knowing God is omnipresent
"How could I possibly be committing a straw man if I'm agreeing to work with the definition of God, that is provided by you?"
A myth is not eternal because at some point it is conceived. A myth is not all-powerful because it is subject to the author. A myth is not all knowing because it is not self aware. A myth is not omnipresent because it does not reside in material reality.
there are 3 respnses to the question "does God exist?" A. No, God is incomprehensible. B. No. God is a myth C. Yes
By agreeing to the definition provided you by implication understood the definition. thus disqualifying A Because a myth is in contradiction with all of God's necessary properties then God is not a myth. (Godel proved this mathematically)
Therefore God exists. These are by implication and avoid circular logic. If God did not exist he could never come into existence. Since God is eternal he can never come out of existence. Therefore it is necessary that God exist. God is then by implication necessarily existent. Therefore God exists in all possible worlds. Atheist:Matt Singleton You seem to be operating on the principle that if a definition is applied to something, then those definition points, and therefore the thing itself, must be real. That is simply not the case. Since you have avoided my unicorn example, let me introduce you to the Beholder.
A beholder is a large intelligent scaly floating spherical head with a big mouth, one big eye, and several eye stalks on top of its head that cast evil spells. The beholder was invented as part of the popular role-playing game, Dungeons & Dragons. It has no real-world analog; no cases of mistaken identity. It clearly does not exist, and yet it is defined in detail. So, I will use your method of reasoning to illustrate the problems with your approach.
A beholder can cast spells, but a myth cannot A beholder has eye stalks, but a myth does not A beholder is intelligent, but a myth is not Therefore a beholder is not a myth, and so it must exist.
Do you see the problem? A definition cannot imply that the thing defined is real, or else you could imply that anything anyone could conceive and define must be real.Matt Singleton"Since you have avoided my unicorn example, let me introduce you to the Beholder." False: I proved the existence of the unicorn and if you contend against me giving the alternative definition, then you can not give a redefinition of God.
"The beholder was invented as part of the popular role-playing game," Therefore the beholder is by definition a myth
"A beholder can cast spells, but a myth cannot A beholder has eye stalks, but a myth does not A beholder is intelligent, but a myth is not Therefore a beholder is not a myth, and so it must exist."
FALSE: The behold is not real, so can not really cast spells. it's eyestalks are not real eye stalks.and it is not really intelligent.
God is eternal. God is all powerful God is all knowing God is omnipresent
Nottice how you do not define the beholder with ANY of these attributes!! NONE!!! You have committed a blatant strawman.
"A definition cannot imply that the thing defined is real, or else you could imply that anything anyone could conceive and define must be real." SPACE: Are you implying that space might not be real? TIME: Are you implying that time might not be real? TRUTH: Are you implying that Truth might not be real? EXISTENCE: Are you implying that existence might not be real? REALITY: Are you implying that reality might not be real?
Some things, not all things, but somethings are real by definition.
Atheist: Matt Singleton “Some things, not all things, but somethings are real by definition.”
Finally we are getting somewhere. Please, then, tell me how you determine what can or cannot be real by definition, and why?Matt Singleton Atheist Things that exist are real upon the condition that they have an explanation. Things that are not real do not exist, because they are not necessary to exist and do not have an explanation. Things that are necessary exist because they make reality possible. examples that are necessarily existent are space, time, truth, reality, God. God is the most necessary because the preconditions of reality are based upon his infinite nature.
If God did not exist, he could not come into existence.
If God is eternal, then that which is eternal can not cease. Therefore God's existence is necessary.
Our causal universe needs a necessary being to be the first cause of it. God is the necessary being.
Atheist: Matt Singleton Much of what you are saying seems to be predicated on the idea that necessary things must exist prior to and/or bringing about reality. But aren't the necessary also a part of reality? Isn't the fact that they are necessary a fact about reality? There's no middle ground as to what is real. If they're real, they are within reality. If they are not withing reality, they are not real.
Now, look at your last paragraph, "Our causal universe needs a necessary being to be the first cause of it. God is the necessary being."
You're doing what everyone does, in my experience, when they try to defend the OA. They jump over into other arguments, in this case, the first-cause argument. And that reveals the weakness of the OA, and arguments by definition in general.
Matt Singleton "Much of what you are saying seems to be predicated on the idea that necessary things must exist prior to and/or bringing about reality. But aren't the necessary also a part of reality? " At this point you are saying that reality is a faculty of reality which is by nature circular.
"But aren't the necessary also a part of reality?" No reality is a part of the necessary. The necessary is real by classification. The necessary transcends reality. The necessary being is not simply within but without. God transcends space and time, He is infinite. You are unable to conceive the infinite.
"You're doing what everyone does, in my experience, when they try to defend the OA. They jump over into other arguments," Are you sure? " Please, then, tell me how you determine what can or cannot be real by definition, and why?" See? You switched the topic, you wanted to discuss reality instead of God. When we discuss reality's nature we are thinking differently because the thing we are thinking of is different.
Now let me ask you about reality. In your understanding if reality is inescapable then isn't that which is not real a part of reality? if tey are not real then how can the be conceived?
When we deal with the concept of God and creation, our modern intellectuals start from a scientific stance asking whether the hypothesis stands up to scrutiny.
However, the weight of Monotheism begins not in the laboratory, but in the hallowed halls of historical record. God was first observed as a historical fact.
Now Vincent Bugliosi is a famous and world reknowned Prosecutor. The court system has always been a reputable institution for determining the past. Bugliosi uses his talents to defend Agnosticism in the book DIVINITY OF DOUBT: THE GOD QUESTION. If ever there was a historical argument against the existence of God it would be in this book.
"First, in a trial the side making the allegation has the burden of proof (The prosecution in a criminal case, The plaintiff in a civil case) That first presents the evidence to prove it's allegation or case. The defense provides evidence to poke holes in the other sides case and many times even presents affirmative evidence to prove the opposite, that the allegation is not true. In this context, the Theist making the allegation that God exists, would open the case, and the atheist would try to knock this allegation down by establishing weaknesses in the theist's case and/or attempting to affirmatively prove that God can not exist. The agnostic would not fit into this theoretical trial because he is not making an allegation one way or the other. The only position he is taking is that he doesn't know." Vincent Bugliosi Divinity of Doubt ch.2 pg.19 'God in Court'
Bugiosi is unphased by the theistic evolution old earth paradigm
"Genesis means to tell a chronological story ("The basic arrangement of Genesis is chronological," says Dr. Everett Fox in His book in the beginning)" Vincent Bugliosi pg. 99 Divinity of DoubtWho is Dr. Everett Fox?
Allen M. Glick Professor of Judaic and Biblical Studies
Considering the scope of this paper and the massive amount of content, I will overlook my normal process of providing The creation scriptures and an exegetical defense of their literal interpretation, I have done this in previous works which I would recommend.
http://biblesmack.blogspot.com/2018/01/why-it-is-certain-genesis-teaches.html
http://biblesmack.blogspot.com/2015/11/bhs-biblical-historical-science-links.html
The topic for this paper is whether the Genesis account is historical according to the discipline of the historians.
Following Contents
A. Reason for the place of History
B.Creator gods through world civilization
C. The unique aspects of the Jewish testimony
D. Historical testimonies of Genesis narative
A. Reason for the place of History
What relevance is the origins in history?
"Whether time had a beginning or whether it always was, the exact number of years cannot be known." {Censorinus, De Die Natali, 1. 1. c.21.}
"To find the details of the history of the whole world or such an immense period of time is beyond us who desire to learn and know truth" Ptolemy, Great Syntaxes 1. 3.)
The pagan historians admittance to an agnostic creation is the same sentiment echoed by secular academia.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The universe is looking younger every day, it seems. New calculations suggest the universe could be a couple billion years younger than scientists now estimate, and even younger than suggested by two other calculations published this year that trimmed hundreds of millions of years from the age of the cosmos. The huge swings in scientists' estimates — even this new calculation could be off by billions of years — reflect different approaches to the tricky problem of figuring the universe's real age."We have large uncertainty for how the stars are moving in the galaxy," said Inh Jee, of the Max Plank Institute in Germany, lead author of the study in Thursday's journal Science ."https://news.yahoo.com/study-finds-universe-might-2-181342412.html
This is an inherently massive gap in our search for a proper epistemology. If we do not know our origins and history we do not know our past and we ultimately are ignorant of our purpose. Not just on moral ideas but on basic logic and functions. How do we know that science works? How do we not know the laws of science will not suddenly change? or even cease to exist? This ignorance should not be embraced but feared.
‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.’ (George Santayana-1905). In a 1948 speech to the House of Commons, Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), ‘Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."
"We who are trained by the Holy Scriptures in the knowledge of truth, do know both the beginning and the end of the world" Lactanius Firmianus, Divine Institutions The biblical worldview provides an attitude of certainty. With it we have a knowledge of the past and the cause of causal relationships. Leibniz proposed that everything which exists has to have an explanation. To which he reasoned that the 1st Caused was a necessary being. Without first a cause to causal relations we do not have a justification for science. Science is the search for explanations to all things. The infinite regress proposed by some atheists and pantheists can not provide us with the ultimate explanation of why we have natural laws. Thus they can not justify science. The Babylonians, Egyptians and Greeks were geniuses in term of philosophy and math. Yet they could not overcome their own skepticism to justify knowledge and thus we did not see them advance in terms of modern technology.
Many assume that science is the primary method of knowledge about anything. However while science can be quite rational and accurate and be effective in debunk falsehoods. It can not positively confirm truth. A. Because of the fallacy of inductive logic. We can not assume that we understand the whole population according to a sample. This mystery often cripples many assumptions. B. The scientific method starts with a hypothesis which is an assumption. it should be an educated assumption. But nevertheless it is an assumption and thus retesting and further experiments forever leave a trace of doubt. History however, is a greater certainty than science. Why is this so? Isn't science more accurate and fine tuned? Yes, but even though the facts of history are blunt. They are nevertheless observations. Observations are more certain than calculations. Thus a hypothesis should be confirmed by the observations of history prior to conduction of the scientific method.
"Ah, but some might say, what about circumstantial evidence? As opposed to direct evidence (eye-witness testimony), which if true, proves a fact in issue without the necessity of drawing any inference, circumstantial evidence is evidence that only tends to prove a fact in dispute by proving a secondary fact, an inference can then be drawn that the fact in issue exists. For instance, from the secondary fact of a witness Seeing a stolen television set in the defendants home, one reasonable inference (there can be others) is that it was he who stole the set, the identity of the thief being the fact in dispute." Vincent Bugliosi Divinity of Doubt ch.2 pg. 22
If God created man, can we find the circumstantial evidence of the testimony? Wouldn't the ancients have testimony of this narrative?
So does the study of History confirm the existence of God? How many ancient/primitive cultures believe in a creator god?
B. Creator gods through world civilization Creator gods:
Adroa is a god of the Lugbara people of central Africa. Adroa has two aspects: one good and one evil. He is the creator of Heaven and Earth, and he appears to those about to die. His good and bad aspects are depicted as two half bodies: the evil one is short and coal black, while his good aspect is tall and white.[1]
Ahone (also known as Rawottonemd) was the chief god and creator in the religion of the Native AmericanPowhatan tribe and related Algonquians in the VirginiaTidewater area. According to tribal legend, Ahone created the world as a flat disk with the Powhatan tribe at its center. He was also considered to be detached from mankind and required no offerings or sacrifices like many other gods. The god Oki was his malevolent counterpart.[1]
Ahura Mazda (/əˌhʊərəˈmæzdə/;[1] also known as Oromasdes, Ohrmazd, Ahuramazda, Hourmazd, Hormazd, and Hurmuz) is the creator and highest deity of Zoroastrianism. Ahura Mazda is the first and most frequently invoked spirit in the Yasna. The literal meaning of the word Ahura is "lord", and that of Mazda is "wisdom".
Aiomun-Kondi, also spelt Aiomum-Kondi and Aimon-Kondi, is an Arawak deity, whose name means "top king creator god".
He is said to have attempted to create a model world, but considered his first two attempts to be failures due to their inhabitants' depraved behavior. He burned his first world and flooded the second, but saved one couple from the latter; Marerewana and his wife. Aiomun-Kondi then realized that there would always be corruption in the world, and moved on.
The Christian faith and non-Christian religions explains that Akongo "is not impersonal, like Mana: indeed the people make a clear distinction between the latter and Akongo himself...on the other hand, he is not universally benevolent"[2]
According to legend, Akongo originally lived with people, but left because they were constantly fighting.[3][4]
His daughter, Mbokomu, caused trouble in heaven so he lowered her down to earth in a basket with her two children. She was the ancestor of all people.[5]
After the rebellion of Thebes against the Hyksos and with the rule of Ahmose I (16th century BC), Amun acquired national importance, expressed in his fusion with the Sun god, Ra, as Amun-Ra or Amun-Re.
Amun-Ra retained chief importance in the Egyptian pantheon throughout the New Kingdom (with the exception of the "Atenist heresy" under Akhenaten).
Amun-Ra in this period (16th to 11th centuries BC) held the position of transcendental, self-created[2]creator deity "par excellence"; he was the champion of the poor or troubled and central to personal piety.[3]His position as King of Gods developed to the point of virtual monotheism where other gods became manifestations of him. With Osiris, Amun-Ra is the most widely recorded of the Egyptian gods.[3]
Anguta is the father of the sea goddess Sedna in Inuit mythology. In certain myths of the Greenland Inuit Anguta (also called "His Father" or Anigut) is considered the creator-god and is the supreme being among of the Inuit people. In other myths, Anguta is merely a mortal widower. His name, meaning "man with something to cut," refers to his mutilating of his daughter which ultimately resulted in her godhood, an act he carried out in both myths. Anguta is a psychopomp, ferrying souls from the land of the living to the underworld, called Adlivun, where his daughter rules. Those souls must then sleep there for a year before they go to Qudlivun (those above us) on the Moon where they will enjoy eternal bliss. He is also known as Aguta.Aramazd was the chief and creator god in pre-ChristianArmenian mythology.[1][2] The deity and his name were derived from the Zoroastrian deity Ahura Mazda after the Median conquest of Armenia in the 6th century BCE.[3]
Aramazd was regarded as a generous god of fertility, rain, and abundance, as well as the father of the other gods, including Anahit, Mihr, and Nane.[1][2] Like Ahura Mazda, Aramazd was seen as the father of the other gods, rarely with a wife, though sometimes husband to Anahit or Spandaramet.[2] Aramazd was the Parthian form of Ahura Mazda.[4]Atua Fafine In Polynesian mythology (specifically: Tikopia), Atua Fafine is a creator god.Awonawilona In the myths of the Pueblo Zuni people of New Mexico, Awonawilona is known as the "Supreme life-giving power" and the creator of all[1] with a name translating to "All Container"
The Baiame myth tells how Baiame came down from the sky to the land, and created rivers, mountains, and forests. He then gave the people their laws of life, traditions, songs, and culture. He also created the first initiation site. This is known as a bora; a place where boys were initiated into manhood. When he had finished, he returned to the sky, and people called him the Sky Hero or All Father or Sky Father.[2]
According to the indigenous religious beliefs of the Tagalog people, Bathala (sometimes spelled Batala) is the all-mighty epicene[1] and hermaphrodite[2] deity who created the universe.[3][4] A descriptive honorific is often attached to his name, describing him as the Bathalang Maylicha (Bathala the Creator; lit. "Actor of Creation") and as the Bathalang Maycapal (Bathala the Almighty; lit. "Actor of Power").[5][6]
It was after the arrival of the Spanish missionaries on the Philippines in the 16th century that Bathala came to be identified as the Christian God, thus its synonymy with Diyos (God) or Dibino (Divine, e.g. Mabathalang Awa), according to J.V. Panganiban (Diksyunaryo-Tesauro Pilipino-Ingles); in some Visayan languages, Bathala also means God.
Brahma (Sanskrit: ब्रह्मा, IAST: Brahmā) is the creator god in Hinduism.[1] He is also known as Svayambhu (self-born) or the creative aspect of Vishnu,[2]Vāgīśa (Lord of Speech), and the creator of the four Vedas,Cautantowwit (also known as Kytan) is the chief deity and creator god in the traditional religion of the Narragansett people.[1][2] Cautantowwit was one of a pantheon of deities observed by the Narragansett, though all were ultimately created by him.[2to search
Cghene, or Oghene, is the supreme God of the Urhobo and Isoko people in southern Nigeria. He is believed to have created the world and all peoples. Oghene is beyond human comprehension and is only known by his actions. Because the God is so distant and unknown he has no temples or priests, and no prayers or sacrifices are offered directly to him.
According to the myth, Dohkwibuhch began the creation of the world in the east, giving a new language to each group that he created. When he reached the Puget Sound, he liked the area so much that decided to stop there. He then took the remaining languages and spread them around, explaining why the tribes of the area have so many different languages. Since they were unable to talk to each other, the people were displeased with Dohkwibuhch.[1][2]
An elaborate Earth-Maker Story of Creation is a myth that comes from the Native Americans of California, also called the "Story of Creation." This myth describes Earth-maker creating day and night, land, water, and all living things. Men and women were created out of soft clay into which Earth-Maker "breathed life".He also created the seas with his tears. The creation begins:Eskiri The Tungus creator god. He retrieved magic mud from the primeval waters and used it to form the earth.[1](russian/slavic)In more recent Anishinaabe culture, the Anishinaabe language word Gichi-manidoo means Great Spirit, the Creator of all things and the Giver of Life, and is sometimes translated as the "Great Mystery". Historically, Anishinaabe people believed in a variety of spirits, whose images were placed near doorways for protection.
Gran Maître (or Gran Met) is the primary creator god in HaitianVodou. He is also the same God as Jehovah from the Judeo-Christian religion.
Huracan[1] (/ˈhʊrəkən,ˈhʊrəˌkɑːn/; Spanish: Huracán; Mayan languages: Hunraqan, "one legged"), often referred to as U Kʼux Kaj, the "Heart of Sky",[2] is a KʼicheʼMaya god of wind, storm, fire and one of the creator deities who participated in all three attempts at creating humanity.[3] He also caused the Great Flood after the second generation of humans angered the gods. He supposedly lived in the windy mists above the floodwaters and repeatedly invoked "earth" until land came up from the seas.
In Lakota mythology, Íŋyaŋ (Rock) was the first of the powerful spirits. He existed before the beginning. He then created Maka and gave it the spirit Makȟá-akáŋl (Earth spirit), the second of the spirit beings and a part of Íŋyaŋ. After creating Makȟá, Íŋyaŋ was very weak.He created miniature versions of Makȟá, and her lover, father sky. Those miniatures were humans. This effort made Íŋyaŋ hard and powerless. His blood became the blue waters and the sky.Itzamna (Mayan pronunciation: [it͡samˈna]) was, in Maya mythology, the name of an upper god and creator deity thought to reside in the sky. Although little is known about him, scattered references are present in early-colonial Spanish reports (relaciones) and dictionaries. Kokh Kox (or Koh,[1] as pronounced in Noon) is the creator god of the Noon people.[2][3][4] The Noon are members of the Serer ethnic group of Senegal, the Gambia and Mauritania. Kokh Kox is one of the main deities in Serer religion.[2][3] The Noon people refer to the supreme being as Kokh Kox rather than Roog, the name the majority of Serers refer to the supreme being in the Serer-Sine language. The name Kokh Kox derives from the deity Koox, the name the Saafi people regularly use to refer to the divine.Jump to search
Kuterastan is the creator in a creation myth of the Kiowa Apache from the southern plains of North America. His name means One Who Lives Above
Ngai (other names: Engai, Enkai, Mweai or Mwiai) is the monolithic Supreme God in the spirituality of the Kamba and Kikuyu (or Gikuyu) of Kenya.[1] Ngai is creator of the universe and all in it. Regarded as the omnipotent God,[2] the Kikuyu worshiped Ngai facing the Mt. Kirinyaga (Mount Kenya) while prayers and goat sacrificial rituals were performed under the sacred Mugumo tree (a fig tree species). Occasions which may warrant sacrifice or libation include times of drought; epidemics; during planting and harvesting; and human life stages such as birth, marriage and death.[2][3]
Noncomala was the main and creative deity of the Ngäbe of the Ngöbe-Buglé Comarca in Panama. He formed the earth and the waters, but they were in darkness and clouds. Wading into the river, he met the water-sprite Rutbe, who bore him twins, the sun and moon.
In the Guaymis flood myth, Noncomala, angered with the world, poured over it a flood of water, killing every man and woman, but that the good god Nubu preserved the "seed" of a man, and when the waters had dried up he sowed it in the earth. From the best of the seeds came a new race of men, and from that which was imperfect came the monkeys.
Among the Nenets people of Siberia, the male Num was the sky god, the good creator of earth and the high god of the Nenets. Num is one of two demiurges, or supreme gods. The Nenets believed earth and all living things were created by the god Num and every heavenly sphere is ruled by one son of the Num god. Nga was his malevolent son.Olelbis (meaning "he who is above") is the creator deity in Wintun mythology. The antagonist of Olelbis is Sedit. A ccording to the mythology of the Wintum tribe, Olelbis desired that the members of the human race should live together as brothers and sisters; that there should be no birth and no death, that life should be agreeable and easy, and the purpose of life should be to rejoining Olelbis in heaven and live with him for all eternity. To satisfy the hunger of the human body, Olelbis created a species of nut which has no shell and falls off the tree when it is ripe (this species of nut or fruit is still a staple item of the Wintum’s diet). Olelbis ordered two brothers to build a paved road from earth to heaven to facilitate the tribe’s reunion with their Creator.
Olodumare (Yoruba: O-lo-dù-ma-rè) also known as Ọlọrun (Almighty) is the name given to one of the three manifestations of the Supreme God or Supreme Being[1] Olodumare's name comes from the words Odu, Mare, and Oni, which translates as "owner of " [2] in the Yoruba pantheon. Olodumare is the Supreme Creator.[1]
The Yoruba believeOlodumare is omnipotent and is also responsible for the creation of all life.[3] Yoruba followers believe Olodumare participates in a calm, restful, rather inactive life. He is not interested or involved when it comes to Earthly matters and lets other orishas, who are described as his sons and daughters, answer human concerns through divination, possession, sacrifice and more.[4] Yoruba tradition says everything is in the hands of God (Olodumare) when they are going to bed at night.[3]
The name Olodumare symbolises a divine "Entity" following these characteristics: not having a father or mother; one that and is not bound by space.[5]
In his own words translated from Portuguese:"I want to speak giving the message from Omai. Omai is the creator of the Yanomami who also has created all the shaboris that are the shamans. The shaboris are the ones that have the knowledge, and they sent two of us to deliver their message.[1]"Pangu (simplified Chinese: 盘古; traditional Chinese: 盤古; pinyin: Pángǔ; Wade–Giles: P'an-ku) is the first living being and the creator of all in some versions of Chinese mythology.Pūluga (or Puluga) is the creator in the religion of the indigenous inhabitants of the Andaman Islands. According to Andaman mythology, Puluga ceased to visit the people when they became remiss of the commands given to them at the creation. Then, without further warning he sent a devastating flood. Only four people survived this flood: two men, Loralola and Poilola, and two women, Kalola and Rimalola. When they landed they found they had lost their fire and all living things had perished. Puluga then recreated the animals and plants but does not seem to have given any further instructions, nor did he return the fire to the survivors.[1]
Rod is an indirect, Slavic successor of the Indo-European god *Dyeus, who was "Lord of Gods", "Lord of Heaven", "King of Gods"
Roog or Rog (Koox in the Cangin languages) is the Supreme God and creator of the Serer religion of the Senegambia region.[1]Roog is sometimes referred to as Roog Sene (Rog Seen, Rog Sene, Rooh Seen, etc.) which means Roog the Immensity, or by extension, the merciful god.[3] Other titles which are used outside of prayers include Roog Dangandeer Seen ("Roog the omnipresent", by extension it can also mean "the Omnipresent God"), Roog o Caaci’in Seen (Roog our ancestor), Roog o maak Seen [or "Roog a faha"] (Roog is great), Roog a yaal'in Seen (Roog our Lord), Roog o Ndimaan Seen (Roog! The giver of the fruit [or life]),[1] and "The Master of the World".[4]Jump to search
Ta'aroa is the supreme creator god in the mythology of French Polynesia. While the use of the ʻeta is appropriate given the pronunciation of his name, as is typically the case with Tahitian words it is often omitted in practice. In the beginning, there was only Ta'aroa, creator of all, including himself. He waited alone in his shell,[1]which appeared as an egg spinning in the empty endless void of the time before the sky, before the earth, before the moon, before the sun, before the stars."
The oldest form of the name is recorded in Chinese annals from the 4th century BC, describing the beliefs of the Xiongnu. It takes the form 撑犁/Cheng-li, which is hypothesized to be a Chinese transcription of Tängri. (The Proto-Turkic form of the word has been reconstructed as *Teŋri or *Taŋrɨ.)[2] Alternatively, a reconstructed Altaic etymology from *T`aŋgiri ("oath" or "god") would emphasize the god's divinity rather than his domain over the sky.[3]
The Turkic form, Tengri, is attested in the 8th century Orkhon inscriptions as the Old Turkic form 𐱅𐰭𐰼𐰃 Teŋri. In modern Turkish, the derived word "Tanrı" is used as the generic word for "god", or for the Abrahamic God, and is used today by Turkish people to refer to any god. The supreme deity of the traditional religion of the Chuvash is Tură.[4]
Tupã (also Tupave or Tenondete; Spanish: Tupá) is the name of the supreme god in the Guaraní creation myth. Țupa is also the word in the Guaraní language that means "god".[1] Țupa is considered to be the creator of the universe, and more specifically the creator of light. His residence is the Sun.[2]
Unkulunkulu (/uɲɠulun'ɠulu/) (isiZulu: the very good looking/handsome) is the Supreme Creator in the language of the Zulu people. In classical, pre-colonial Zulu myth, Unkulunkulu brought human beings and cattle from an area of reeds. He created everything, from land and water to man and the animals. He is considered the first man as well as the parent of all Zulu. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food.[1]
The creation story of Unumbotte is a variation on the Garden of Eden. In it Unumbotte creates a man, then the animals including an antelope and a snake, and later a woman. He gave the humans seeds and they grew trees and plants, including one bearing red fruit. Unumbotte would eat from the tree every seven days, but the humans would not. Eventually the snake persuaded the humans to eat from the tree, explaining to Unumbotte that they were hungry. Unumbotte thus gave each of the creatures foods to eat, humans had cultivated plants, the antelope had grass, but the snake was given poison and a desire to attack humans.[2]
Viracocha is the great creator deity in the pre-Inca and Inca mythology in the Andes region of South America. Full name and some spelling alternatives are Wiracocha,[1]Apu Qun Tiqsi Wiraqutra, and Con-Tici (also spelled Kon-Tiki, the source of the name of Thor Heyerdahl's raft). Viracocha was one of the most important deities in the Inca pantheon and seen as the creator of all things, or the substance from which all things are created, and intimately associated with the sea.[2]
Viracocha created the universe, sun, moon, and stars, time (by commanding the sun to move over the sky)[3] and civilization itself. Viracocha was worshipped as god of the sun and of storms. He was represented as wearing the sun for a crown, with thunderbolts in his hands, and tears descending from his eyes as rain.Vishvakarman (Sanskrit: विश्वकर्मन्, Viśvakarman; lit. "all creating") is the Personification of ultimate reality and deity of the creative power. He is believed to be one of the ancient architect or engineer who created and taught building of ancient monuments, architectures in Bharat, now India. According to the Rigveda[3] It/He is considered to be the architect, divine engineer of universe from before the advent of time.[4][5][6]
Waheguru (Punjabi: ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, romanized: vāhigurū) refers to the almighty God, the supreme soul, the creator in Sikhism.
The word vāhegurū is traditionally explained as vāh "wondrous" + gu "darkness" + and rū "light", together said to carry the meaning, "The wondrous Lord who dispels the darkness of ignorance and bestows the light of truth, knowledge and enlightenment".[citation needed]
Wisakedjak (Wìsakedjàk in Algonquin, Wīsahkēcāhk(w) in Cree and Wiisagejaak in Oji-cree) is the CraneManitou found in northern Algonquian and Denestorytelling, similar to the tricksterNanabozho in Ojibwaaadizookaanan (sacred stories) and Inktonme in Assiniboine lore. He is generally portrayed as being responsible for a great flood which destroyed the world. In other stories he is also one of the beings who created the current world, either on his own, or with magic given to him by the Creator for that specific purpose. His name is found in a number of different forms in the related languages and cultures he appears in, including Weesack-kachack, Wisagatcak, Wis-kay-tchach, Wissaketchak, Woesack-ootchacht, Vasaagihdzak, and Weesageechak.Xamaba is the supreme being of the Heikum of South Africa. Creator of all things, including humanity, he is a benevolent figure who is invoked for help when ill and when traveling, and is said to provide the rain.Zamba is the Supreme Creator-God of the Yaoundé people of the Cameroons. According to the Yaoundé people, he made the Earth and all its creatures except human beings. He left that job to his four sons, Ngi (gorilla) the strong, N'Kokon (mantis) the wise, Otukut (lizard) the fool, and Wo (chimpanzee) the curious - and each made human beings in his own image, which is why we are the way we are.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creator_gods So often secular scholars don't notice this with their atheistic presuppositions. But history does not have a strong record of atheism, though it does have a majority testimony of creator Gods. Admittedly this does not always equate monotheism. But tribal oral traditions are not going to be so accurate about abstract philosophy. But what we see is not only creator gods in general but similarities at times to the genesis creation account. mentions of the supreme being as masculine, some mentions of the garden of eden. the flood and sin of mankind etc. These tails are from all over the globe. Often they do not have direct contact with Jewish influence. The fact that the different cultures and languages keep these tales points us an original narrative. Which of course is an original creator God. This also fits with the most ancient societies. Egypt
"One, the maker of all things, the Spirit, the hidden Spirit, the
maker of Spirits. He existed in the beginning, when nothing else was.
What is created He made after he came into being. ... No man knows how
to find Him; His name is a mystery and is hidden. His names are
innumerable. He is truth, He lives on truth, He is the king of truth. He
is life, through Him man lives; He gives life to man, He breathed life
into his nostrils . . He Himself is existence; He neither increases or
diminishes. He made the universe, the world, what was, what is, and what
shall be. ... He hears him who calls on Him, He rewardes his servants, those who acknowledge Him He knows, He protects His followers."
E.A. Wallis Budge, Osiris (New Hyde Park, N.Y: University Books, 1961) p. 357.
china The Chinese God was known as "Shang di" (note the similarities to "El Shaddai" one of God's names in genesis) meaning "Lord above" or "Supreme Lord"E. Allie and M. Frazer, Chinese and Japanese Religion (Philadelphia, Westminster Press, 1969) p. 268.
India " In the beginning, who was born the Lord the sole Lord of all that is
who made the earth, and formed the sky, who gives life Who gives
strength, whose bidding gods revere the ONLY GOD." Rig Veda excerpt from Selwyn Gurney Champion & Dorothy Short, Readings from World Religions (Greenwhich, Conn., Fawcett Publ., 1951) pp. 26-27.
http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v07n2p18.h
Sumerian
"An (in Sumerian), later known as Anu or Ilu (in Akkadian),[33] is the supreme God and "prime mover in creation", embodied by the sky.[30] He is the first and most distant ancestor,[30] theologically conceived as the God of Heaven in its "transcendental obscurity".[34] All the deities were believed to be the offspring of An and his consort Ki (cf. Anunnaki).[30][35][22] While An was the utmost God,[36][30] at least by the time of the earliest written records the cult was largely devoted to Enlil.[37][38]"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mesopotamian_deities
Chinese
"Shangdi (Chinese: 上帝; pinyin: Shàngdì; Wade–Giles: Shang Ti), also written simply, "Emperor" (Chinese: 帝; pinyin: Dì), is the Chinese term for "Supreme Deity" or "Highest Deity" in the theology of the classical texts, especially deriving from Shang theology and finding an equivalent in the later Tian ("Heaven" or "Great Whole") of Zhou theology."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi
C. The unique aspects of the Jewish testimony
Flood myths
"One of the strongest evidences for the global flood which annihilated all people on Earth except for Noah and his family, has been the ubiquitous presence of flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world. And the stories are all so similar. Local geography and cultural aspects may be present but they all seem to be telling the same story.Over the years I have collected more than 200 of these stories, originally reported by various missionaries, anthropologists, and ethnologists."https://www.icr.org/article/why-does-nearly-every-culture-have-tradition-globa These myths fit the idea of actual floods. "Of course, attempts to bring science to bear on relating ancient tales to actual events are fraught with speculation. But it is clear that stories of great floods are some of humanity’s oldest. And the global pattern of tsunamis, glacial outburst floods, and catastrophic flooding of lowlands fits rather well with unusual details within many flood stories."https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-chinese-megaflood-may-be-fact-not-fiction/ Now the topic of the flood as worldwide and scientifically plausible is a large topic I have written on in other articles. The purpose for now is to deal with History. We see a worldwide pattern of uniformity of flood legends even though they usually are outside the official chronologies. This may point to the fact that the flood was prior to these and point to the fact that the jewish History is the correct record which places these in proper chronology.
The sea worthy Ark "Although researchers are unsure if all the creatures could have squeezed into the huge boat, they are confident it would have handled the weight of 70,000 creatures without sinking.
A group of master’s students from the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Leicester University studied the exact dimensions of the Ark, set out in Genesis 6:13-22. According to The Bible, God instructed Noah to build a boat which was 300 cubits long 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high – recommending gopher wood for the enormous lifeboat. The students averaged out the Egyptian and Hebrew cubit measurement to come up with 48.2cm, making the Ark around 144 metres long – about 100 metres shorter than Ark Royal. Using the dimensions, the Archimedes principal of buoyancy and approximate animal wrights they were astonished to find out that the Ark would have floated. Student Benjamin Jordan, 21, from Bury St Edmonds, said: “Using the dimensions of the Ark and the density of the water, we were able to calculate its buoyancy force, which, according to Archimedes’ principle, is equal to the weight of the volume of fluid the object displaces. "This meant we were then able to estimate the total mass the Ark could support before the gravitational weight would overcome the buoyancy force, causing the Ark to sink.” Previous research has suggested that there were approximately 35,000 species of animals which would have needed to be saved by Noah, enabling the students to conclude that the dimensions given in the Bible would have allowed Noah to build an ark that would float with all of the animals on board. The students had to swap gopher wood for cypress wood, as Biblical experts continue to speculate as to what gopher wood might be. Some think it may just mean plained timber. Student Thomas Morris, 22, from Chelmsford, said: “You don’t think of the Bible necessarily as a scientifically accurate source of information, so I guess we were quite surprised when we discovered it would work. We’re not proving that it’s true, but the concept would definitely work.” It is a separate matter whether all of the animals would fit inside an ark of these dimensions – the physics students were simply calculating the buoyancy of the ark. The students presented their findings in a paper for the Journal of Physics Special Topics, a peer-reviewed student journal run by the University’s Department of Physics and Astronomy." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10740451/Noahs-Ark-would-have-floated...even-with-70000-animals.html
It is this point which makes the Flood account of Noah stick out among the various flood traditions because this story has a feasible modal for the ark. It also makes Noah a historically reliable witness.
Babel
“Now it was Nimrod who excited them to such an affront and contempt of God. He was the grandson of Ham, the son of Noah, - a bold man, and of great strength of hand. He persuaded them not to ascribe it to God, as if it was through his means they were happy, but to believe it was their own courage, which procured that happiness. He also gradually changed the government into tyranny,- seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into constant dependence upon his power. He also said he would be revenged on God, If he should have a mind to drowned the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach!” Josephus Antiquity of the Jews book1 ch. 2, 2The Jewish account shows their hypothesis, that the competing nations were in opposition to god by means of inheritance of the example of Nimrod. Herodutus "The wall is brought right down to the water on both side, and at right angles to the wall, there is a low fencing wall of baked bricks, stretching down each bank of the river..."180 The great wall I have described is the cheif armour of the city; but there is a second one within it, hardly less strong though narrower. There is a fortress in the middle of each half of the city: in one the royal palace surrounded by a wall of great strength in the other temple of Bêl, the Babylonian Zeus.73 The temple is a square building, two furlongs each way, with bronze gates, and was still in existence in my time. It has a solid central tower, one stadium(furlong) square, with a second erected on top of it and then a third, and so on up to eight. All eight towers can be climbed by a spiral way running round the outside, and about half way up there are seats for those who make the ascent to rest on. On the summit of the topmost tower stands a great temple with a fine large couch in it, richly covered, and a golden table beside it. The shrine contains no image, and no one spends the night there except (if we may believe that Chaldaeans who are the priests of Bêl) one Babylonian woman, all alone, whoever it may be that the god has chosen. The Chaldaeans also say -though I do not believe them- that the god enters the temple in person and takes his rest upon the bed.{{Herodotus, Histories1.181-182;"
You will notice in the previous paragraph how brings up "baked bricks"
Genesis 11:3 And each one said to his neighbour: Come, let us make brick, and bake them with fire. And they had brick instead of stones, and slime instead of mortar." by the way, a furlong is about 220yards. So now we have a physical observation of the tower of babel account, which will authenticate the explanation and reinforce the origin by means of Noah. The Miao tribes, or as it is spelled in most encyclopedias "Miautso," at one time occupied most of inland China south of the Yangtze River, but have been gradually driven into the mountains of the southwest by the better-armed and better-organized Chinese. The Miao of our section claim to have been driven out of Kiangsi Province.
The Miao/Miautso tribes (formerly inland, now southwest China) have ancient traditions in harmony with scripture. Here is there testimony of Babel and table of nations.
Babel Lo-han then begat Cusah and Mesay. (Note 3) Lo-shan begat Elan and Nga-shur. Their offspring begotten became tribes and peoples; Their descendants established encampments and cities. Their singing was all with the same tunes and music; Their speaking was all with the same words and language. Then they said let us build us a very big city; Let us raise unto heaven a very high tower. This was wrong, but they reached this decision; Not right, but they rashly persisted. God struck at them then, changed their language and accent. Descending in wrath, He confused tones and voices. One's speech to the others who hear him has no meaning; He's speaking in words, but they can't understand him. So the city they builded was never completed; The tower they wrought has to stand thus unfinished. In despair then they separate under all heaven, They part from each other the globe to encircle. (Note 4) They arrive at six corners and speak the six languages. Miao Genealogy The Patriarch Jahphu got the center of nations. (Note 5) The son he begat was the Patriarch Go-men. Who took him a wife called the Matriarch Go-yong. Their grandson and his wife both took the name Tutan. Their descendants are given in order as follows: Patriarch Gawndan Mew-wan, Matriarch Cawdan Mew-jew; Patriarch Jenku Dawvu, Matriarch Jeneo Boje; Patriarch Gangen Newang (wife not given); Patriarch Seageweng, Matriarch Maw gueh. Their children, eleven in number, was each the head of a family. Five branches became the Miao nation. Six families joined with the Chinese."https://www.icr.org/article/genesis-according-miao-people
Here we have a removed separate witness to the truth of the scriptures. The Miao people have no stated agenda to support the Jews, only their own tradition which is thus History.
So with this we also have the limit of the pagan histories which must then rely on the genealogies of Adam to Noah to gain such historicity.
Pagans ignore the Jews
"I have conceived the idea of writing the life of Moses, who, according to the account of some persons, was the lawgiver of the Jews, but according to others only an interpreter of the sacred laws, the greatest and most perfect man that ever lived, having a desire to make has character known to those who ought not to remain in ignorance respecting him, (2) For the glory of the laws which he left behind him has reached over the whole world, and penetrated to the very furthest limits of the universe; and those who do really and truly understand him are not many, perhaps partly out of envy or else from the disposition so common to many persons of resisting the commands which are given by lawgivers in different states, since the historians who have flourished among the Greeks, have not chosen to think him worthy of mention. (3) the greater part of whom have both in their poems and also in their prose writings, disparaged and defaced the powers which they have received through education, composing comedies and works full of Sybaritish prolifigacy and licentiousness to their everlasting shame, while they ought rather to have employed their natural endowments and abilities in preserving a record of virtuous men and praiseworthy lives, so that honourable actions, whether ancient or modern, might not be buried in silence and thus have all recollection of them lost, while they might shine gloriously if duly celebrated; and that they might not themselves have seemed to pass by more appropriate subjects, and to prefer such as were unworthy of being mentioned at all, while they were eager to give a specious appearance to infamous actions, so as to secure notoriety for disgraceful deeds." On the life of Moses,I The Works of Philo trans. C.D. Yonge pg. 459 Philo's grievance with the Greeks is sad and touching. It reminds many of us faithful today. ow our media will not keep records of those good and virtuous things but focus on those things which are negative outlandish and ungodly.
Pre-Socratic philosophers paved the way. "The early Greek, Pre-Socratic philosophers attempted to explain the world around them in more natural terms than those who relied on mythological explanations that divided the labor among human-looking (anthropomorphic) gods.For example, instead of anthropomorphic creator gods, the Pre-Socratic philosopher Anaxagoras thought nous 'mind' controlled the universe." https://www.thoughtco.com/greek-mythology-pre-socratic-philosophy-112518
Polytheism could not defeat the logic of these philosophers which left monotheism as the victor awaiting a tradition that could be it's champion. Provided by Judaism and Christianity. "However when Democritus depreciates sense qualities, he grants them enough reality to need reducing to atoms in motion, but replies Zeno on the atomic theory, there could be no sensation at all. not even a little bit to reduce. For suppose one stood upon a rock-bound coast of Attica or Maine. A storm at sea sends waves crashing against the rocks and their thunder is tremendous. But is it? If one were standing there as a tiny bit of spray a mere atom of a wave, hit the shore, how much sound would be heard? Even such relatively gigantic things as a bit of chalk dust make no noise when they drop to hit the floor. A speck of mist would therefore not be heard of all; there would be no noise and to this zero of sound a speck of spray adds to it's zero. Again to shorten a long story, the addition of zeroes forever gives zero; and yet the wave is the addition of the atoms in water. Democritus theory therefore, if consistently applied, renders absurd the reduction of sensory qualities in quantitative determinations because the qualities, such as sound could not have been replaced in the first place." Gordon Clark "Thales to dewey" The Pre-socratics "Zeno" pg. 42
There was a period of materialism during this period, which is very close to Atheism. However, it failed to justify knowledge from such a view and thus the philosophers of Greece dumped the notion.
Abraham"And the original founder of the Jewish nation was a Chaldean by birth, being the Son of a father who was much devoted to the study of astronomy, and being among people who were great studiers of the mathematical science, who think the stars and the whole heaven, and the whole world gods; and they see both good and evil result from the speculations and belief, since they do not believe in anything as a cause which is apart from those things which are visible to the outward senses." Philo A Treatese Concerning the World Works of Philo trans. C.D. Yonge pg. 867This is important in the fact that Abraham was educated in regards of what these ancients had to say and offer. He is was also wealthy in his lifetime and did not need to leave Ur. Abraham's faith is justified for honesty. He did not have an earthly inheritance but he a spiritual one.
The Historic Origin of Egypt1816d AM, 2526 JP, 2217 BC"52. Constantinus Manasses stated that the Egyptian state lasted sixteen hundred and sixty-three years. Counting backward from the time that Cambyses, king of Persia, conquered Egypt, leads us to this date. About this time Mizraim, son of Ham, led his colony into Egypt. Hence, Egypt was sometimes called the land of Mizraim, sometimes of Ham (psalm 105:2327, 106:21,22). It was from this that the Pharisees later boasted that they were the sons of ancient kings [Isa. 19:11] {See note on 3479b A.M..<>} Annals of the world Bishop James Usher
So here the Biblical timeline shows some historic support from Roman history. It should here be noted that Egyptian "history" is an archaeological and not a historical construction.
“178 Moses was eighty years old and Aaron eighty-three when they were commanded by God to return again to Pharaoh. When the magicians by their sorcery imitated the miracles of Aaron’s rod becoming a serpent, Pharaoh became more obstinate than ever. {Ex 7:1-13} The leaders of these magicians who opposed Moses were Jannes and Jambres, as named by the apostle Paul. {2Ti 3:8} These names are noted not only by the Jews in their Talmudical treatise of ##### (that is, Oblations, c.9.) where they are called by the names of ##### and #####, that is Jochanon and Mamre. They are mentioned also in the Chaldee Paraphrase, where they are attributed to Jonathon, {Ex 1:15 7:11} as well as among some heathen writers, for Numenius Apamea, a Pythagorean Philosopher, in his third book ### # ###### cited by Eusebius. He related this account: {*Eusibius, Gospel, 1. 9. c. 8. (411d) 1:443} “ ‘Jannes and Jambres, interpreters of mysteries of Egypt, were in great repute at the time when the Jews were sent out of Egypt. It was the opinion of all men that these were inferior to none in the art of magic. For by the common opinion of the Egyptians, these two were chosen to oppose Moses, the ringleader of the Jews. Moses prayers were most prevalent with God and they alone were able to undo and end all those most grievous calamities that God brought upon all the Egyptians.’ “Pliny in reference to this stated: {*Pliny, 1. 30. c . 2. (11) 8:285} “ ‘There is also another sect of magicians, derived from Moses, Jannes, Lotapes and the Jews.’ “Pliny is, however, incorrect on two counts: a) In reckoning Moses among the magicians. b) In making Jannes and Lotapes to be Jews.“But when Pharaoh’s magicians could do no more, God through Moses sent his ten plagues upon the Egyptians. These are summarized in the Psalms {Ps 78:1-72 105:1-45}. According to the Jews, these plagues lasted a year, but in fact they were all sent within one month, in the following order.” Arch Bishop James Usher The Annals of the World 2513b AM, 3223 JP, 1491 BC Here Archbishop Ussher cites pagan historians who have recognize the Egyptian magicians and record the challenge between them and the Egyptian gods verses the God of Moses. If they are historical then Moses should also be Historical. "These things Psammetichos did and gave him this charge wishing to
hear what word the children would let break forth first after they had
ceased from wailings without sense. And accordingly it came to pass; for
after a space of two years had gone by, during which the shepherd went on
acting so, at length, when he opened the door and entered, both children
fell before him in entreaty and uttered the word bekos, stretching
forth their hands. At first when he heard this the shepherd kept silence;
but since this word was often repeated, as he visited them constantly and
attended to them, at last he declared the matter to his master, and at his
command he brought the children before his face. Then Psammetichos having
himself also heard it, began to inquire what nation of men named anything
bekos, and inquiring he found that the Phrygians had this name for
bread. In this manner and guided by an indication such as this, the
Egyptians were brought to allow that the Phrygians were a more ancient
people than themselves. That so it came to pass I heard from the priests
of that Hephaistos who dwells at Memphis; but the Hellenes relate, besides
many other idle tales, that Psammetichos cut out the tongues of certain
women and then caused the children to live with these women". Herodotus The Second Book of His Histories called Euterpe
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2131/2131-h/2131-h.htm
While many in acadamia have ignored Herodotus over his inaccuracies, perhaps they have been too dismissive as the ancient world does not naturally give Egypt as much charity as they would like to suppose. Perhaps the Egyptians have exaggerated their own histories.
"The Hyksos, Semitic tribes from Canaan and Syria knew no pity. With the fateful year of 1730 B.C. the thirteen hundred year rule of the dynasties came to an abrupt end. The Middle Kingdom of the Pharoahs was shattered under the onslaught of these asiatic peoples, the "rulers of foreign lands". That is the meaning of the name Hyksos. The memory of this political disaster remained alive among the Nile people, as a striking description by the Egyptian historian Manetho testified: We had a king named Tutimaeus. In his reign, it happened. I do not know why God was displeased with us. Unexpectantly, from the regions of the east, came men of an unknown race." "The biblical story of Joseph and the sojourn of the children of Israel in Egypt probably come into this period of turbulent conditions on the nile under the rule of the foreign Hyksos."Werner Keller The Bible as History pg. 99, 100 2nd edit.
While further discussion surpasses the scope of this article. The Egyptian history is not as infallible as advertised. There is room for the Jews after all.
A bigoted history with an important admission. [36.2] LThe origin of the Jews was from Damascus, a most famous city of Syria, whence also the Assyrian kings and queen Semiramis sprung. 2 The name of the city was given it from King Damascus, in honour of whom the Syrians consecrated the sepulchre of his wife Arathis as a temple, and regard her as a goddess worthy of the most sacred worship. 3 After Damascus, Azelus, and then Adores, Abraham, and Israhel were their kings. 4 But a prosperous family of ten sons made Israhel more famous than any of his ancestors. 5 Having divided his kingdom, in consequence, into ten governments, he committed them to his sons, and called the whole people Jews from Judas, who died soon after the division, and ordered his memory to be held in veneration by them all, as his portion was shared among them. 6 The youngest of the brothers was Joseph, whom the others, fearing his extraordinary abilities, secretly made prisoner, and sold to some foreign merchants. 7 Being carried by them into Egypt, and having there, by his great powers of mind, made himself master of the arts of magic, he found in a short time great favour with the king; 8 for he was eminently skilled in prodigies, and was the first to establish the science of interpreting dreams; and nothing, indeed, of divine or human law seems to have been unknown to him; 9 so that he foretold a dearth in the land some years before it happened, and all Egypt would have perished by famine, had not the king, by his advice, ordered the corn to be laid up for several years; 10 such being the proofs of his knowledge, that his admonitions seemed to proceed, not from a mortal, but a god. 11His son was Moses, whom, besides the inheritance of his father's knowledge, the comeliness of his person also recommended.12 But the Egyptians, being troubled with scabies and leprosy, and moved by some oracular prediction, expelled him, with those who had the disease, out of Egypt, that the distemper might not spread among a greater number. 13 Becoming leader, accordingly, of the exiles, he carried off by stealth the sacred utensils of the Egyptians, who, endeavouring to recover them by force of arms, were obliged by tempests to return home; 14 and Moses, having reached Damascus, the birth-place of his forefathers, took possession of mount Sinai, on his arrival at which, after having suffered, together with his followers, from a seven days' fast in the deserts of Arabia, he consecrated every seventh day (according to the present custom of the nation) for a fast-day, and to be perpetually called a sabbath, because that day had ended at once their hunger and their wanderings. 15 And as they remembered that they had been driven from Egypt for fear of spreading infection, they took care, in order that they might not become odious, from the same cause, to the inhabitants of the country, to have no communication with strangers; a rule which, from having been adopted on that particular occasion, gradually became a custom and part of their religion. 16 After the death of Moses, his son Aruas was made priest for celebrating the rites which they brought from Egypt, and soon after created king; and ever afterwards it was a custom among the Jews to have the same chiefs both for kings and priests; and, by uniting religion with the administration of justice, it is almost incredible how powerful they became. "http://www.attalus.org/translate/justin4.html#30.1 Justin: trogus
Here we have this ancient Roman giving his account of Jewish History. On one hand he is not the most scholarly source on the topic being rather removed. But it is important to notice that he is opposed to the Jews and does not give credence to their deliverance by Jehovah. However, this makes his admittance to the fact the Jews dwelt in the land of Egypt and that they escaped all the more reliable. Once again a testimony of Moses as a real historic person.
"In composing his history of Egypt and putting together a register of it's dynasties, Menetho who was guided by the desire to prove to the Greeks, the masters of his land, that the Egyptian people and culture were much older than theirs and also older than the Babylonian nation and civilization." *I. Velokovski, Peoples of the Sea (1977).
King Mesha (from the Moabite stone)
"7 And kemos said to me: 'Go, take Nebo from Israel!' And I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of dawn until noon, and I took it, and I killed it's whole population seven thousand male citizens and aliens, female citizens and aliens, and servant girls, for I had put it to the ban of Astar kemos. And from there I took the vessels of YHWH[Jehovah] and I hauled them before the face of Kemos".https://www.ancient.eu/Moabite_Stone_%5BMesha_Stele%5D/
The stone is dated at 900 BC, where Mesha boast of his victory over Israel. Of course the Bible records King Omri whom he conquered as a wicked king deserving of defeat.
1 kings 16:25 "But Omri wrought evil in the eyes of the Lord, and did worse than all that were before him." What is important to note is how Jehovah was the name of God and the chronology is here vindicated.
D. Historical testimonies of Genesis narative
Dead Sea Scrolls
11Q5 Col. 26:12"His heart. When all angels saw, they rejoiced in song-For he had shown them what they knew not:13 decking out the mountains with food , fine sustenance for all who live. Blessed be He who by His might created the earth, who by his wisdom established the world. By his understanding stretched forth the heavens and brought out [the wind] from [His] trea[sure stores]. He created [lightning for the ra]in and [from] the end [the earth] made vapor[s] to rise."
4Q422 A Commentary on Genesis and exodus
Col.1 Frag.1 "[..,] He[the heavens and the earth and all] their [h]ost by [His] word[…] [..and he rested on the seventh day from all the work whi]ch He had done, and [His] holy spirit[…] "[… and he made every living] beast and creeping thing […] "[…] they excercsed their dominion to eat the frui[t of the earth...] [...] not to eat from the tree of the kn[owledge of good and evil …] […]he arose against Him and they forgot[His statutes...] […] with an evil inclination, and for work[s of injustice] [….] peace[…]."
Ancient Jews from an ecstatic sect, keep the general understand of God as the creator that was seen in the book of Genesis.
Apocrypha Sirach 17:God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image.2 And he turned him into it again, and clothed him with strength according to himself.3 He gave him the number of his days and time, and gave him power over all things that are upon the earth.4 He put the fear of him upon all flesh, and he had dominion over beasts and fowls.5 He created of him a helpmate like to himself: he gave them counsel, and a tongue, and eyes, and ears, and a heart to devise: and he filled them with the knowledge of understanding.6 He created in them the science of the spirit, he filled their heart with wisdom, and shewed them both good and evil."
Wisdom of Solomon 13:But all men are vain, in whom there is not the knowledge of God: and who by these good things that are seen, could not understand him that is, neither by attending to the works have acknowledged who was the workman:2 But have imagined either the fire, or the wind, or the swift air, or the circle of the stars, or the great water, or the sun and moon, to be the gods that rule the world.3 With whose beauty, if they, being delighted, took them to be gods: let them know how much the Lord of them is more beautiful than they: for the first author of beauty made all those things.4 Or if they admired their power and their effects, let them understand by them, that he that made them, is mightier than they:5 For by the greatness of the beauty, and of the creature, the creator of them may be seen, so as to be known thereby.6 But yet as to these they are less to be blamed. For they perhaps err, seeking God, and desirous to find him.7 For being conversant among his works, they search: and they are persuaded that the things are good which are seen."
The apocryphal works of Egyptian Jews give credence to reality of God and his creation
Pseudo pigrapha
Testament of Adam
"The fifth hour is the waters that are above heaven. And so I, together with the angels, used to hear the sound of mighty waves. A signe which would prompt them to a hymn of praise to the creator."
The testament of Moses
1:11"..For this is what the Lord of the world hath decreed. He created the world on behalf of his people, but he did not make this purpose of creation openly known from the beginning of the world so that the nations might be found guilty, indeed they might abjectly declare themselves guilty by their own (mistaken) discussion (of creation's purpose)." 989
Life of Adam and Eve
Even works of fiction tend to leave their worldview and nonfiction facts as the backdrop of their tales. Once again the jewish worldview affirms the universal acceptance of the genesis account as factual.
Talmud)
The Talmud is a collection of ancient writings by Jewish rabbis which relate to the Hebrew Scriptures. It has been described as “a work wherein is deposited the bulk of the literary labours of numerous Jewish scholars over a period of some 700 years [from 200 BC to AD 500]”.1Thus it is the oldest Bible commentary in existence. There is, however, a very wide range of views held between the different rabbis. According to Abraham Cohen in Everyman’s Talmud, “Usually we are faced with a variety of views which are often contradictory, and it is by no means easy to achieve a coherent presentation of a doctrine.”2How did those learned ancient men view the biblical account of creation? Did they take the Scriptures literally? Or did they absorb evolutionary views from their Greek neighbours?
Figure 1. The first word of Genesis. Its first letter (on the right) is open only at the front, indicating that it is pointless trying to consider a time before the beginning.
The beginning To the question, ‘Why does the story of creation begin with the letter beth?’, the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet, the Talmud’s answer is given: “In the same manner that the letter beth is closed on all sides and only open in front, similarly you are not permitted to inquire into what is before, or what was behind, but only from the actual time of Creation.”3 (See Figure 1.) That is to say “time is meaningless as far as God is concerned and did not exist until He created the world”.4
Was Adam one man?
Did any of the ancient rabbis believe that ‘Adam was a crowd’? Apparently not. Cohen says that a curious explanation is given in the Talmud as to why the whole human race originated from one man: “Because of the righteous and the wicked, that the righteous should not say ‘we are the descendants of a righteous ancestor’ and the wicked say ‘we are the descendants of a wicked ancestor’.” The moral is that “neither can plead hereditary influence as the deciding factor in their character”.5 “Man was first created a single individual to teach the lesson that whoever destroys one life, Scripture ascribes it to him as though he had destroyed a whole world; and whoever saves one life, Scripture ascribes it to him as though he had saved a whole world.”6
Even made from Adam's rib The story is told that an emperor said to a rabbi that his God was a thief, because he took a rib from Adam. The rabbi’s daughter made an excellent reply. She told him a story about a thief breaking into her house, stealing a silver ewer and leaving behind a gold ewer instead. When the emperor expressed envy at such a robbery, she replied, “Was it not, then, a splendid thing for the first man when a single rib was taken from him and a woman to care for him was supplied in its stead?”7"
Ref. 1., p.27., (p. Chag. 2:1).
Ref. 1., p.37.
Ref. 1., p. 94., (Sanh. 38a).
Ref. 1., p. 67., (Sanh. IV 5).
Ref. 1., p. 160., (Sanh. 39a). " https://creation.com/ancient-jewish-view-of-creation
As creation.com demonstrated, the Talmud took a literal approach to understand creation
"Josephus) Josephus wrote the history of the Jews for the Romans. 2. Now I have undertaken the present work, as thinking it will appear to all the Greeks worthy of study; for it will contain all of our antiquities, and the constitution of our government, as interpreted out of our Hebrew Scriptures; and indeed I did formerly intend, when I wrote of the war, to explain who the Jews originally were,- what fortunes they had been subject to,- and by what legislator they had been instructed in piety, and the exercise of other virtues,- what wars also they had made in remote ages, till they were unwillingly engaged in this last with the Romans; but because this work would take up a great compass, I separated it into a set treatise by itself, with a beginning of it's own, and it's own conclusion;" Preface The Antiquity of the Jews
Josephus intent is to give the factual history of the Jewish people.
"1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth; but when the earth did not come into sight, but was covered with thick darkness, and a wind moved upon the surface, God commanded that there should be light; and when that was made he considered the whole mass, and separated the light from darkness; and the name he gave to one was Night, and the other he called day; and he named the beginning of the light and the time of the rest, The Evening and the Morning; and this was indeed the first day, but Moses said it was one day, -the cause of which I am able to give even now; but because I have promised to give such reasons for all things in a treatise by itself, I shall put off it's exposition till that time. After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts; and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantages of the dews. On the third day he appointed the dry land to appear, with the sea itself round about it; and on the very same day he made the plants and the seeds to spring out of the earth. On the fourth day he adorned the heavens, with the sun, the moon, and the other stars;; and appointed them their motions and courses,, that the vicissitudes of the seasons might be clearly signified. And on the 5th day he produced the living creatures, both those that swim and those that fly; the former in the sea, the latter in the air; he also sorted them as to society and mixture, for procreation, and that their kinds may increase and multiply On the sixth day he created the four footed beasts, and made them male and female: on the same day he also formed man. Accordingly Moses says that in just six days the world and all that is therein was made; and that the seventh day was a rest, and a release from the labor of such operations;-whence it is that we celebrate a rest from our labors on that day, and call it the Sabbath; which word denotes rest in the Hebrew tongue. "2. Morover, Moses, after the seventh day was over, begins to talk philosophically; and concerning the formation of man," Book I "From the Creation to the death of Isaac" There is no doubt that Josephus is taking genesis quite literal and interprets the creation of the world literally.
Philo"III 13v And he says that the world was made in six days, not because the Creator stood in need of a length of time (for it is natural that God should do everything at once, not merely by uttering a command, but by even thinking of it): but because the things created required arrangement; and number is akin to arrangement; and, of all numbers, six is, by the laws of nature, the most productive: for all the numbers, from the unit upwards, it is the first perfect one, being made equal to it's parts. and being made complete by them: the number three being half of it, and the number two a third of it, and the unit a sixth of it, and, so to say, it is formed so as to be both male and female, and is made up of the power of both natures; for in existing things, the odd number is the male, and the even number is female, accordingly, of odd numbers, the first number is three, and of the even numbers, the first is two, and the two numbers multiplied together make six." On the creation The Works of Philo trans. C.D. Yonge pg.4 Hendrickson publishers jan. 2000
There are several levels of importance here. Philo is one of the earliest proponents of an allegorical approach to scripture. He could have easily taken that allegorical approach to say that the length of 6 days was not meant to be taken literally. Both with the tension of a platonic instant creation as well as the pressure of the increased Egyptian chronology. However, Philo instead uses his philosophical prowess to defend the reasoning of waiting 6 days! The only reason for this would be the fact that the 6days of creation are indeed the assumed meaning of genesis 1 to the Jewish people! it is important to note how this was a more conservative approach than the later Christian theologian Augustine, who caved into the wisdom of the day.
Eusebius "(4) This, too, we are taught by the Great Moses, that most ancient of prophets, when under the influence of the divine Spirit, he describes the creation and arrangements of all things, he also informs us that the Creator and Maker of the universe yielded to Christ, and to none but to his divine and first begotten Word the formation of all subordinate things and communed with him respecting the creation of man. "For," says he, "God said let us make man according our image and according to our likeness"(Gen.1:26)." "(5) The expression is confirmed by another of the prophets, who, discoursing of God in his hymns, declares, "He spake, and they were made, he commanded, and they were created"(Ps. 33:9). Where he introduces the Father and Maker as the Ruler of all, commanding with his sovereign nod but the divine Word as next to him, the very same who is proclaimed to us, as ministering to his Father's commands. (6) All who are said to have excelled in righteousness and piety since the creation of man; Moses that eminent servant of God and Abraham before him, the children of the latter, and as many righteous prophets as subsequently appeared contemplated with the pure eyes and both recognized and gave him the worship that was his due as the Son of God." "(7) The Son himself, however, by no means indifferent to the worship of the Father, is appointed to the knowledge of the Father to all. The Lord God, therefore, appeared as a common man to Abraham, while sitting at the oak of Mamre. And Abraham, immediately falling down, although he plainly saw a man with his eyes, nevertheless worshipped him as God and entreated him as Lord. The Son confessed, too, that he is not ignorant who he is in the words, "Lord, the judge of all the earth,, wilt not thou judge righteously?" (Gen. 18:25).(8) As it were wholly unreasonable to suppose the uncreated and unchangeable substance of the Almighty God to be changed into the form of a man or to deceive the eyes of beholders with the phantom of anycreated substance, so also it is unreasonable to suppose that the Scriptures have falsely invented such things as these. "God and the Lord who is judge of the whole earth, and execute judgement" appearing in the shape of man, who else can he be called, if it be not lawful to call him the Author of the universe, then his pre-existing word? Concerning him also in the Psalms it is said "He sent his word and healed them, and delivered them from their corruptions Ps. 107:20)" Eusebius Ecclesiastical History book 1 ch.2 pg. 5-6 trans. C. F. Cruse 1998 Hendrickson Publishers
Eusebius brings a Christological interpretation to the Genesis History, We should notice as he speaks of figurative typology the back drop of historic view of genesis is clearly understood.
Islam(Koran translated by J.M.Rodwell)
"He hath created the Heavens and the Earth to set forth His truth; high let Him be exalted above the gods they join with Him!" pg.200 LXXIII Sura XVI The authority of the Abrahamic God is clearly based upon his role as the creator.
"And how many generations have we destroyed ere the days of these(Meccans) mightier than they in strength! Search ye then the Land. Is there any escape? Lo! herein is warning to him who hatha heart, or giveth ear, and is himself an eye-witness. We created the world in six days, and no weariness touched us" Sura L-kaf 35-37 pg. 93
Here we see the mockery of the Meccans having the natural implication of acknowledgement of the 6day creation.
"Praise be to God maker of Heavens and the earth! Who employed the angels as envoys, with pairs of wings, two, three, four; He addeth to His creature what He will! Truly God hath power for all things. …. "Is there a creator other than God, who nourisheth you with heaven and the earth? There is no God but he! How then are you turned aside from Him?" LXXXVI. The creator or the angels pg. 289
Now it is not surrising that the Koran supports cration. What is significant is the fact that the Islamic audience has generally accepted the creation account. This audience is Arabic. Not only is the creation narrative then surpassing the mythological narrative, but the Arabs are neighbors who often rival the Jews. Thus accepting their account gives an added historical credibility.
ArchBishop James Usher "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [Gen.1.] The beginning of time according to ourchronology, happened at the start of the evening preceding the 23rd day of October (on the julian calendar), 4004 BC of 710JP. (this day was the first Sunday past the autonomnal equinox fpr that year and would have been September 21 on the Gregorian calendar. Historians routinely use the Julian Calendar for all BC dates. Editor) 2. On the first day (Gen. 1:1-5) of the world(Sunday October 23), God created the highest heaven and the angels. When he finished, as it were the roof of the building he started with the foundation of this wonderful fabric of the world. He fashioned this lowermost globe, consisting of the deep and of the earth. Therefore all the choir of angels sang together and magnified his name (job 38:7) When the earth was without form and void and darkness covered the face of the deep, God created light on the very middle of the 1st day God divided this from darkness and called the one day and the other night. 3. On the second day[Gen. 1:6-8] (mon October 24) after the firmament or heaven was finished, the waters above were separated from the waters here below, enclosing the earth. 4. On the third day[Gen. 1.9-13] (Tuesday October 25), when these waters below ran together into one place the dry land appeared. From this collection of the waters God made a sea, sending out from here the rivers, which were to return there again. [Eccl. 1.7] He caused the earth to bud and bring forth all kinds of herbs and plants with seeds and fruits. Most importantly, he enriched the Garden of Eden with plants, for among them grew the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. [Gen. 2:8,9] 5. On the fourth day (Wednesday, October 26), the sun, moon, and the rest of the stars were created [gen. 1:14-19] (according to the astronomical calculations, if the moon had existed on the first day of creation then it would have been a new moon. Editor.) 6. On the fifth day(Thursday, October 27) fish and flying birds were created and commanded to multiply and fill the rest of the sea and the earth. [Ge. 1:20-23) 7. On the sixth day (Friday October 28), the living creatures (ge. 1:24-27) Last of all man was created in the image of God, which consisted in the capacity of the mind to have knowledge of the divine,[col. 3:10] and in the natural and proper sanctity of his will. (eph. 4:24) When by divine power all living creatures were brought before him. Adam gave them their names. Among all these. he found no one to help him who was like himself.[l2] Lest he should be destitute of a suitable companion . God took aq rib out of his side while he slept and fashioned it into a woman.( Mena and women both have the same number of ribs. Removal of ta rib would not cause one's son to have one less rib any more than if one lost a leg, he would expect his son to be born with only one leg. The rib is the only bone in the human body that regenerates itself if it is removed. Editor.) He gave her to him for a wife, establishing by it the law of marriage between them. He blessed them and bade them to be fruitful and multiply. He gave them dominion over all living creatures. God provided a large portion of food and sustenance for them to live on. To conclude, because sin had not yet entered the world: "God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."[Gen. 1:31] 8. Now on the seventh day(Saturday October 29), when God had finished his work which he intended, he then rested from all labour.[e2] He blessed the 7th day and ordained and consecrated the sabbath (Ge. 2:2,3] because He rested on it [ex. 31:17] and refreshed himself. Nor as yet had sin entered the world for none is cited. Nor was there any punishment given by God, either upon mankind , or upon angels. Hence it was that this day was set forth both for our sanctification in this world [ex. 31:13], as well for a sign of the eternal sabbath to be enjoyed in the world to come. In it we expect a full deliverance from sin and it's dregs and all it's punishments. [Heb 4:4, 9,10]" 1a AM, 719JP, 4004BC Annals of the world Not only is Usher giving a literal account just as Josephus. He has scientifically enhanced the account with mathematical certainty and extremely specific dating and summarizing the scholarly work of the classic historians.
Mennonite Dordrecht confession of 1632 This is a Mennonite confession
Article 1 "of God and the creation of all things" Whereas it is declared, that "without faith it is impossible to please God," and that "He that come th to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him," therefore we confess with the mouth, and believe with the heart, together together with all the pious, according to the Holy Scriptures, that there is one eternal almighty, and incomprehensible God, Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, and none more and none other, before whom no God existed, neither will exist after Him. For from Him and through Him, and in Him are all things. To Him be blessing, praise and honor for ever and ever. In this one God, "who worketh all in all" We believe. Him we confess as the creator of all things, visable and invisable; who in six days created and prepared "heaven and earth, and the sea and all things that are therein." And we further believe, that this God still governs and preserves the same, together with all His works, through His wisdom, His might, and the "word of His power." And when He had finished His works, and had ordained and prepared them, each in its nature and properties, good and upright, according to His pleasure, He created the first man, the father of us Ml, Adam; whom He formed of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living soul, created by God in His own image and likeness, in righteousness and holiness, unto eternal life. He regarded him above all other creatures, endowed him with many high and glorious gifts, placed him in the pleasure garden or Paradise, and gave him a command and prohibition; afterwards He took a rib from Adam, made a woman therefrom, and brought her to him, joining and giving her to him for a helpmate, companion, and wife; and in consequence of this He also caused, that from this one man Adam, all men that dwell upon the whole earth have descended. Gen. 1:27; 2:7, 17, 18, 22.
II. Of the Fall of Man
We believe and confess, according to the holy Scriptures, that these our first parents, Adam and Eve, did not continue long in this glorious state in which they were created, but that they, seduced by the subtlety and deceit of the serpent, and the envy of the devil, transgressed the high commandment of God and became disobedient to their Creator; through which disobedience sin has come into the world, and death by sin, which has thus passed upon all men, for that all have sinned, and, hence, brought upon themselves the wrath of God, and condemnation; for which reason they were of God driven out of Paradise, or the pleasure garden, to till the earth, in sorrow to eat of it, and to eat their bread in the sweat of their face, till they should return to the earth, from which they were taken; and that they, therefore, through this one sin, became so ruined, separated, and estranged from God, that they, neither through themselves, nor through any of their descendants, nor through angels, nor men, nor any other creature in heaven or on earth, could be raised up, redeemed, or reconciled to God, but would have had to be eternally lost, had not God, in compassion for His creatures, made provision for it, and interposed with His love and mercy.
Gen. 3:6; IV Esd. 3:7; Rom. 5:12, 18; Gen. 3:23; Ps. 49:8; Rev. 5:9; John 3:16 I wanted to show this confessional statement as a reflection of the evangelical faith prior to the advent of evolutionary Darwinian thought. Other confessions like Westminster and the 2nd London Baptist confession are admirable as well. Thus giving a final touch on a full range of perspective seeing the History observed in the genesis creation account. Witnesses to God's creation Job 38:4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7when the morning stars sang together,and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 the four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Many argue that there were no eyewitnesses to the creation of man and yet the angels were witnesses. It should be noted that there are universal witnesses to secondary spiritual beings as well So creation is for at least the most part an eye-witnessed event. God interacts with historical characters
Adam
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
So, here we see God in the process of communicating to Adam
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Here we see God as a male person. This means that God is personal. if you are a person, you are either male or female. "It" is not a person. God needs to be personal to interact with humanity and be part of history.
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
This is a very interesting account because it not only has God acting, but it has him dialoguing with 3 persons. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exodus 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do.4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the Lord.6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Deuteronomy31:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Deuternomy 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." So Moses is here writing the Torah with the assistance of God. mark 10:3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 1" Jesus makes Moses the penman of genessv1 and 2.Moses compiled the generations record!"The author has treated the story as a series of ten "generations"
("toledot"); namely, (1) of heaven and earth, ch. ii. 4-iv.; (2) of
Adam, v.-vi. 8; (3) of Noah, vi. 9-ix.; (4) of Noah's sons, x.-xi. 9;
(5) of Shem, xi. 10-26; (6) of Terah, xi. 27-xxv. 11; (7) of Ishmael,
xxv. 12-18; (8) of Isaac, xxv. 19-xxxv.; (9) of Esau, xxxvi.; (10) of
Jacob, xxxvii.-1."http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6580-genesis-the-book-of So the records were recorded on tablets and handed down over the centuries.
So what does this give us in terms of certainty?
Obviously over a life time we will have more experiences and education. So there is always learning. However, we have to have an overarching theory by which we can explain the world we live in. We have had presuppositions. But the time has come for a re-evaluation.
History is the step beyond personal experience. It is the experience of society or the world civilization.
Here I have demonstrated the observation.
The next question would be is this worldview rational.
Here is one rational proof that defends the observation of a creator.
http://biblesmack.blogspot.com/2019/11/an-ontological-argument-for-creationism.html
Now if the case is valid, Then we have completed the stage of an overarching theory.
The overarching theory would be a scientific expression of the religious concept of faith.
But to put simply when we do study modern science our presuppositions should be creationist as opposed to the current system of humanist/evolutionist.
Atheist: Matt Singleton I am not evading defining God. I just don't see why you would want me to. Your whole approach to the MOA requires you to control the definition of God. If you are willing to relinquish that control, I will happily define God right now: God is a singular, intelligent super-being with the ability to manifest ideas into physical reality, who may or may not exist.
