Geocentrism unassailable

This is a response to
"Refuting absolute geocentrism
Refutation of our detractors
by Robert Carter"
 http://creation.com/refuting-geocentrism-response

Absolute Geocentrist straw men


Denial.
1.  I do not advocate the ptolemaic system
2.  I do not support moon landing conspiracies
3.  I do not believe in a flat earth
4.  I am not Roman Catholic





 "The most detailed response was by a Roman Catholic man named Robert Sungenis,¹ who seems to have taken over from a Protestant man named Gerardus Bouw as the most vocal geocentrist, and a few of the other respondents restated many similar arguments."
"most vocal" is a bizarre phrase.  The natural phrase would be most famous. Dr. Sungenis' movie "The Principle"  was cast with many stars including CMI's John Gideon Hartnett.  The documentary broke records in most theaters that were screen and the mainstream media even though it was very negative did give a huge amount of publicity to this movie it was famous.
  But I must contend that I was not knowledgeable of geocentrism till the work of Malcolm Bowden was shown to me, I first came about hearing him in a debate with none other than Hugh Ross.  Malcolm bowden is a presbyterian.
Also the "man named Robert Sungenis"  Is a fellow with a bachelorette in physics and a PHD in theology focusing his dissertation on the concept of Geocentricity.
It is a bit deceptive to call him "a man" as if he had no qualifications on the subject or any other. They do so as well with Gerardus Bouw who has a PHD in Astronomy.  I get angry when creationists like those in CMI are slighted when the media trumpets their oppositions accomplishments and willfully ignores theirs.  And I hold CMI to the same accountability when they address opposition.
"We do not need to defend our defense of the early scientists who pioneered geokinetic theory. Most geocentrists today are Catholic, and most of geokinetic pioneers were Catholics (for example, the priest Buridan, the bishop Oresme, the Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, the canon Copernicus, and, of course, Galileo)."
CMI needs to realize that they have admitted that helio-centrism is a form of Roman catholicism and that these pioneers would take RCC in a more liberal direction which dominates the church today especially from the papacy.
  Meanwhile Tycho brahe was a protestant and both Luther and Calvin argued for the geo centric view.  A church father of the black baptist john Jasper, also preached on geocentrism repeatedly even before the US president.
" The “neo-Tychonian” view of some of the modern proponents of geocentrism tries to take the purely descriptive (“kinematic”) model of Tycho Brahe and turn it into a physical (“dynamic”) model where the earth is balanced in place by the forces of gravity."
 My NYC model is different from the Sungenis model in the sense that it is not entirely gravitation-ally based. I want to make the point that while their is the use of the term "balanced". I am not sure if they would agree that the earth is not therefore stationary.
The biblical concept is that the earth "hangs".
job 26: ⁷ He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,
and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
  This hanging, NYC postulates is through electromagnetic force. The gravity that is postulated is in accordance with Mach's principle  The idea that the "star field" generates the gravitational energy for the Zodiac current.
(ZODIAC, noun [L, Gr., an animal.] A broad circle in the heavens, containing the twelve signs through which the sun passes in its annual course. The center of this belt is the ecliptic, which is the path of the sun. It intersects the equator at an angle or 23 degrees and a half or rather 29 minutes. This is called its obliquity.)
Thus the gravitation orbiting with the ether is carrying the sun and by extension the solar system. around the earth. The earth is hanging electromagnetically in line with the cosmic microwave background radiation as an electric universe spins around it.






http://creation.com/refuting-geocentrism-response



"Some responders noted that we failed to directly engage with the proponents of geocentrism. This is true. Actually, it was by design. We also deliberately didn’t refer to previous modern creationist critics of geocentrism."

" who seems to have taken over from a Protestant man named Gerardus Bouw as the most vocal geocentrist"

" Most geocentrists today are Catholic, and most of geokinetic pioneers were Catholics"

"We were careful to separate “absolute geocentrism” (where the earth is fixed in place and everything rotates around it) from geocentrism in general (where earth is simply used as a convenient reference frame). Among the former are the Ptolemaic model (where everything orbits the earth) and the Tychonian model (where the sun and moon orbit the fixed earth but the planets orbit the sun). The “neo-Tychonian” view of some of the modern proponents of geocentrism tries to take the purely descriptive (“kinematic”) model of Tycho Brahe and turn it into a physical (“dynamic”) model where the earth is balanced in place by the forces of gravity."
  These issues need to be settled separately.  CMI must be careful not to paint such a broad brush.



" We see that geocentrists reject time dilation in general, claiming that clocks slow down because of the mechanical effects of gravity or inertial forces. We wonder how an atomic clock (the only clocks sensitive enough to detect time dilation), that is in turn based on molecular vibrations in crystals, is subject to mechanical interference. Also, the amount of time dilation in GPS satellites is exactly the amount predicted by Einstein—before the technology to measure time dilation was available."

I am not dogmatic about time-dialation.  I reject the speed of light as a constant but there might be something to salvage as we observe the effect. But when we argue against the big bang theory, we point out that an idea like the universe stretching, implying that measurements and space stretching along with the universe is contradictory and immeasurable.
We have to assume that we have a nearly perfect measurement in distancing the stars and galaxies.  But our ways of guessing these measurements, stellar parallax (trigonomic proccess of calculating the distance with triangulated distances of stars) and spectroscopy (a measurement based off of the doppler interpretation of red shift observations)   conflict with each other at the most crucial points, such as the measurement of Polaris/(north star).  So we have yet to ascertain any certainty on the matter of distance and so it is not possible to be certain about the time dilation of these galaxies.
    Isn't ironic that Carter presents his evidence from earth centered stand points?  Measuring the GPS satellites is by nature comparing time on the GPS with time of the earth assumes a stationary earth to understand the difference between the time scales.  But if we want to claim dogmatically a time dilation we are either stuck no measurement based upon the copernican principle (the idea that there is no center of the universe).  Or, we can take a galacto-centric route, where the center of the milky way is the base for time dilation. thus the solar system has to go through an aging process of at 220 million years seeing as that is the calculated time it would take for the sun to rotate around the milky way. Giving this model the benefit of the doubt, an argument might be made that this distance crossed would be fast in relative motion.  Yet the motion still would be made with massive calculations of wear and tare. 




 "Several wondered how the earth could maintain a precise annual orbital period in light of internal inertial forces, cosmic forces, and planetary perturbations. Our answer is simple: Newton. One triumph of Newton, a biblical creationist, was that his laws of motion and gravity (along with his co-invention, calculus) could straightforwardly explain in a dynamic model the kinematic three laws of planetary motion discovered by his fellow creationist, Kepler. There’s no magic here. The relevant factors are reasonable and measureable."

They are creating the illusion that Newton was a fundamentalist christian. by today's standards Newton was not a liberal, but compared to the Christians of the time Newton was a liberal whose intellectual ancestors would become deists.

"These quotes from the text, Memoirs of the Life, Writings, and discoveries of Sir Isaac Newton, volume 2 by Sir David Brewster from 1855 and available in full on Google Books.

Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)

Pg 450 of that book we find:

As to Moses, I do not think his description of ye creation either philosophical or feigned, but that he described realities in a language artificially adapted to ye sense of ye vulgar.  Thus when he speaks of two great lights, I suppose he means their apparent not real greatness. So when he tells us God placed these lights in ye firmament, he speaks I suppose of their apparent not real place, his business being not to correct the vulgar notions in matters philosophical, but to adapt a description of the creation as handsomely as he could to ye sense and capacity of ye vulgar.  So when he tells us of two great lights, and ye stars made ye 4^th day, I do not think their creation from beginning to end was done the 4^th day, nor in any one day of ye creation, nor that Moses mentions their creation, as they were physicall bodies in themselves, some of them greater than the earth, and perhaps habitable worlds, but only as they were lights to this earth, so therefore though their creation could not physically [be] assigned to any one day, yet being a part of ye sensible creation which it was Moses’s design to describe, and it being his design to describe things in order according to the succession of days, allotting no more than one day to one thing, they were to be referred to some day or other, and rather to the 4^th day than any other, if they [the] air then first became clear enough for them to shine thro’ it, and so put ye appearance of lights in ye firmament to enlighten the earth…”

  https://thenaturalhistorian.com/2012/08/03/isaac-newton-mosaic-account-of-creation-burnet-theory-earth/
"There’s no magic here."
Now is Carter dealing with a group of pagans? No he is aligning himself with newton against geocentrists. What was Newton doing? he was giving a materialistic mechanistic understanding of the universe.
Now, Newtonian science historically produced  Deists and later atheists because the mission was simple, give nonsupernatural answers to everything!
  This is the key philosophical flaw to mainstream creationism they are still trying to operate from the same "positivist" attitude of their secular science education and get supernatural results.
  Yes, we  agree that there is scientific evidence for creation, but just because it is scientific does not mean it has to become naturalistic.
  When we look into the cosmos and see a light move, can we truly see the force that is carrying the object?  Who is to say that gravity is at work and not an angel?
  The astronomers of the scholastic  period thought this way.  So will that force me to partake in mass transubstantiation?
No because the angel would not become the planet. Now I am not quite as direct as these old catholic astronomers.  I believe there are natural forces.  But these forces are a operated by angelic spirits.
Instead of nature as a machine, it is nature as a corporation!
" by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ¹⁷ and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
psalm 91 ¹¹ For he shall give his angels charge over thee,
to keep thee in all thy ways.
ephesians 3: and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: ¹⁰ to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

"We see that geocentrists reject time dilation in general, claiming that clocks slow down because of the mechanical effects of gravity or inertial forces. We wonder how an atomic clock (the only clocks sensitive enough to detect time dilation), that is in turn based on molecular vibrations in crystals, is subject to mechanical interference."
      I am not thoroughly convinced that it is necessary to reject time dilation.  At least I don't see why we would have to abolish the effect of time dilation.  "the Beginning" in Genesis 1:1 suggests a relationship between time and motion.
   However the force of gravity in NYC is a subset of electromagnetic force.  Electromagnetic force does start at the molecular level and that is also in accord with the molecular vibrations.  Thus the NYC model is Einsteins time dialtion has yet to prove relativity's version of time dilation as the true explanation.
"Also, the amount of time dilation in GPS satellites is exactly the amount predicted by Einstein—before the technology to measure time dilation was available."
This exposes mainstream creationisms weakness in the areas of philosophy and/or logic.  A theory can make a prediction and be successful, yet that does not prove the theory true.   the Scientific method is not truly designed to make a theory true.  It is only designed to make a theory false.   There is no doubt that Einstein got hundreds of propositions right with several predictiona correct.  The issue is that there are central aspects of the theory that have proven his system false.  Such as the changing speed of light as well as the existence of the ether.
"Many of them believe that the Earth is balanced at the universe’s center of mass and that the earth can be at rest if the proper forces outside the solar system are properly balanced. Newton said something to this effect, and theoretically one could construct such a universe. But it would only work if the major gravitational sources in the universe were indeed far away. Instead, there is a star (the sun) only 8 light-minutes away from earth that dominates the local gravitational environment."
    Now before anything else I must say that the most important observation of the earth in this regard is found in the scripture. 
Job 26: ⁷ He stretcheth out the north over the empty place,
and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
The earth hangeth.  The universe may be balanced, but the earth hangeth upon nothing.  The earth is hanging in the balance of a spinning universe.
The earth is placed at the center of mass so as the earth is not effected in it's position in the universe.
 "But it would only work if the major gravitational sources in the universe were indeed far away. Instead, there is a star (the sun)"
   This thought ignores Mach's principle by assuming that the stars have no relationship with the sun.  The sun still has a relationship with the rest of the solar system in the annual orbit. Yet the sun has to have a relationship with the ether winds, Plasmatic electric force and stellar gravity.  There is nothing unfathomable about our sun being carried by these greater forces of nature.  In fact,  We have seen how the stars relate in accordance with each other.  Assuming quantum physics models they have come up with the concept of worm holes to verify this observation.  Yet in a electric NYC model these forces would multiply. The force of gravity is 10 to the 36th power weaker than electromagnetic force.  The stars being electrically connected across the ether membrane would have an extreme greater influence upon the sun which would naturally comply.
   I can';t help but notice the assumptions about prediction of the kinematic model.
1st Einsteins predictions were only made for mercury as opposed to the entire solar system.


2nd much of the assumed proof was calculated with the assumptions of solar centricity.  The helical model, where the solar system is revolving around the milky has mathematical issues as to keeping the planets aligned in centripedal motion permanently while the sun is being carried around the milkyway at about 250km per second.  Assuming as Relativity states that light speed is the constant then the speed of gravitation can not exceed the speed of light and it would take gravity 8 minutes. Gravity operates from the center of the object.  So with the sun in a constant state of exit we see, major problems.
 https://youtu.be/73mZMcV-OgU

 We need blessings not curses.

   Typically in political discourse we expect our political leadership to express proper etiquette. Implicitly entailed in that is banning the use of profanity. 8 yrs ago Donald trump shocked the world with profanity in his campaign speeches. Now both the democrats and republicans have come around to "let it all hang out".  The politicians can be their natural selves. [nasty and foul]
during the presidential debate Joe Biden swore at least half a dozen times. The GOP convention also had several occasions' from not one, but many politicians cussing.
  Some secularist will emphasize the benefits of cussing such as authenticity, a release of frustration etc. But the benefits are outweighed in the end. As they come off rude and unsophisticated. 
   Typically you here about hard laborers developing cussing habits because of the burdens they bear. Not something you want seen coming from the privileged. But more than this profanity is a social ill that does drag lower elements of society with it,  Even secular studies can sometimes notice this*  People are unhappy with the wrong worldviews and faiths.  They grow bitter in their unsatisfaction with life. They develop the profanity habit.  They get stressed out and turn to depressant drugs.  They end up 
      These habits find themselves knitted into the fabric of other secular problem eroding society.  The cumulative effect builds on to crime evils and calamities. of course profanity in private is a minor problem but profanity in the public square pollutes the attitude and magnifies in a  chain reaction.  People start having fits of violence and misbehavior, they progress towards drugs and then the criminal element after being ostracized,  When public officials engage in these tactics they incubate an environment that contradicts their mission.
     In the previous generation, a point of libertarian ethics towards foul language gave way to social anarchy.
     It appears that socialists have had creative response by deconstructing and reconstructing profanity into what we have seen as the social justice movement.  Dirty language is sill encouraged but the new profanity is focused on race, sex and religion. by encouraging these pour habits society, dare we say the hegemony is deconstructed,  Thus giving way to the coming tyranny (if not the current tyranny).  As the language leads to behavior control.
 God is a loving God that encourages his people to use their mouths to bless instead of to curse.  Jesus wants us to promote peace instead of instigating violence.  Instead of deconstructing society we should be reconstructing the family and society.  Promoting the Holy over the profane  keeps us with a self controlled focus and demeaner if politicians want to promote freedom they should promote responsibility.  In peter's darkest hour he cursed. In his greatest our he blessed.

Mark 14:70 And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept."
acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.  35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be."
Proverbs 3:15 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger."

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:"

Swearing, or uttering a word that is considered taboo, is an often-ignored part of our language due to the controversial nature of the topic and the potential negative consequences of swearing. In 1901, Patrick [2] concluded that swearwords are primarily used by soldiers, sailors, laborers, uneducated people, and criminals, and men make up the majority of these social groups. While swearing has been considered a predominately masculine activity, women now tend to swear as much, or even more often, then men [3]. Since swearing is considered taboo, these words are usually judged as shocking, and the swearer may be considered antisocial and offensive. Consequently, swearing can negatively impact how the swearer is perceived by others, which may lead to social isolation and depression. In groups of women with rheumatoid arthritis or breast cancer, Robbins et al. [4] found that swearing was related to increases in depressive symptoms, and this association remained significant even after accounting for variances in the depressive symptoms associated with disease severity. Interestingly, only swearing in the presence of others, and not swearing alone was correlated with increased depressive symptoms [4]. In specific contexts, swearing has been shown to produce negative outcomes."  
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8928588/

"Recent research has shown that this emotional impact can have an analgesic effect, and there's other evidence that strategically deployed swear words can make a speech more memorable. But it's not all positive. A new study suggests that swear words have a dark side. Megan Robbins and her team recorded snippets of speech from middle-aged women with rheumatoid arthritis, and others with breast cancer, and found those who swore more in the company of other people also experienced increased depression and a perceived loss of social support."
https://www.bps.org.uk/research-digest/dark-side-swearing 

"Brad Bushman, a media expert at Ohio State University who was not involved with the study, concurs after reviewing the research.
“This research shows that profanity is not harmless,” said Bushman, a mass communications professor. “Children exposed to profanity in the media think that such language is ‘normal,’ which may reduce their inhibitions about using profanity themselves. And children who use profanity are more likely to aggress against others. These are very important findings for parents, teachers, and pediatricians.”
"The connection between profanity and adolescent aggression remained significant even while accounting for the influence of portrayals of aggression in the shows and games popular with the middle school students involved in the study.
“This research shows that profanity is not harmless,” said Bushman, a mass communications professor. “Children exposed to profanity in the media think that such language is ‘normal,’ which may reduce their inhibitions about using profanity themselves. And children who use profanity are more likely to aggress against others. These are very important findings for parents, teachers, and pediatricians." 

https://news.byu.edu/news/profanity-tv-video-games-linked-teen-aggression#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20the%20statistical%20modeling%20points,both%20physical%20and%20relational%20aggression.

Is prayer part of conversion?

 Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism,"

The church of the New testament is unified in the doctrine of Christ as Lord. One Faith received by the saints. and one baptism of believers.
The Southern baptist church has been infiltrated. Really by several different sects.
But the most camaflauged is the attack upon the nature of faith.
I would argue that faith has 4 major pillars that establish true saving faith.
A. faith is propositional.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
1 corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
B. Faith is personal.4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."



C. Faith though not a work, is an act.
Matthew 9:22But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Matthew 9:29Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."
Matthew 15:28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."
Mark 5:34And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
Mark 10:52And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Luke 7:50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace
Luke 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
Luke 17:19And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole."
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee."
Luke 22:32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

John 1:The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


D. Faith is simple
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."
2 corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)"
1 Corinthians 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

NOw one recent attack on faith is openly hostile among those claiming to be baptist claiming that we should not have personal faith through the means of prayer. this is dangerous for the cause of evangelism and this calls suspicioun upon those who profess such a doctrine for perhaps. there faith is not personal and perhaps they do not personally believe chirst.
People are claiming that there is no sinners prayer in the bible. Now "the sinners prayer" is a euphemism fpr praying to receive salvation. So THERE IS NO SINNERS PRAYER AT ALL THAT THEY ARE REFERING TO. THEY ARE GENERALLY ATTACKING ALL PRAYER TOWARDS CONVERSION.
That being the case IF THERE IS ANY GENERAL TEACHING IN SCRIPTURE OF PRAYER FOR SALVATION THEN THAT ARE CONVINCINGLY REFUTED, like any failed experiment.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
Quite often the anti prayer crowd assumes hypercalvinism. they attack evangelism so viciously because they believe in total inability. The idea that man can not request salvation. But then why is christ promising to grant such a request? if it were only the regenerate this would be irrational on the basis that they would already have the holy spirit before requesting. God is not the author of confusion.
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
A Clear exposition from Paul. conversing with deut. 30, Paul declares we are enabled to receive christ
The passage speaks for itself you just have to read it.

ACts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
when we call upon God it is praying. it is not ju8st stating faith. Or showing off works.

matthew 7:1 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
How can we reconcile the two passages? Easy. Calling upon the name of the Lord is synonymous with prayer. not profession or the already refuted works.
Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Jesus is in the heart of someone born again.
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
1 john 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
The gospel is likened to a sacrament because the Holy Spirit acts.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

We should seek to convert the lost.
Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise"
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."
"It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."XI bf&M 2000
iv bf&m 2000
"There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord."